Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception

Exposing the Dangerous Teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Denomination

Homosexuality Deception


As with many other issues brought to this site, homosexuality is one that brings with it extreme controversy. After breaking free from the IFB so many years ago, my perspective about many things in life have changed. My views about homosexuality have changed as well and I believe that the IFB promotes an anti-homosexual agenda for many of the wrong reasons.

This article is going to be somewhat vague because I have a colleague working on publishing research related to scripture and homosexuality so I will let him go into details about biblical exegesis. Please accept my apologies for that. I just want to share that the IFB has for many years and still is on the front lines to suppress and marginalize homosexuals. They manipulate scriptures to do so and it’s abusive.

I’m aware of how much of a hot button issues this is in society and especially in our Christian sub-culture.  I’m actually counting on that and hope that these articles help many people re-think this critical issue.  This is a very complex issue – again the IFB would like to view it as black and white, but nothing could be further from the truth. 

A lot of what I write here is simply a way for me to process the information and think out loud (so to speak).  As such, I’m hoping to get some good discussions going.  We really need to wrestle with this issue to make sure that we are handling it properly.  There are many hurting gay men and women in our societies. The church (especially the IFB) by in large is – in my humble opinion – doing nothing to help and in fact, in some circumstances, making things worse.

In this article I’d like to simply present an introduction to the issue that point to the EXTREMELY damaging practices that the IFB and Christianity as a whole do when it comes to these issues.

I think that the Christian community as a whole does a very poor job of reaching out to the homosexual community, but the IFB, in my opinion and experience, is one of the worst offenders. The IFB is very quick to judge and shun homosexuals. The IFB refuses to allow homosexuals to feel comfortable in church (or even attend church in some instances) and to have leadership/teaching roles in church. The IFB is outspoken against gay marriage and promotes homosexuality as a choice rather then a natural occurrence.

The jury is still out on the “cause” of homosexual orientation. The “nurture vs. nature” debate is quite strong still. The IFB, however, has turned a blind eye to the evidence for natural “causes” of homosexuality and Christians have made up their minds about the issue with no willingness to even consider the issues.

It’s important to discuss this issue and have an open dialogue about how to best minister to those who need and want help incorporating spirituality into their life, however, the IFB has decided to keep a closed mind to such efforts.

The major issue I have with the approach the IFB and other Christians take when it comes to this issue of homosexuality is similar to other areas that are highly controversial and it’s one of closed minded dogmatism. Why is it, do you think, that homosexuals feel so uncomfortable in church (if they even attend)?  We’ve done a piss poor job of making homosexuals feel welcome and loved.  Christ loves the homosexual just as much as the heterosexual.  The last time I looked, we aren’t supposed to judge people.

So with that being said the first thing that I need to point out is the lack of scriptural mandate that that instructs the Christian to be so vocal against homosexuality and gay marriage. If homosexuality and gay marriage is a sin (and I’m not convinced it is – more on this to come in future articles) why do Christians feel the need to be so vocal against it?  This is an issue that’s personal, between the individuals and God.  It’s NEVER our place as Christians to judge the behaviors of others and try to convince people of what we perceive or even believe is sin!  It’s not our place to do the convicting work of the Holy Spirit. The IFB is far too quick to condemn homosexuality and the homosexual.

The IFB is out of line in speaking out against homosexuality and this under lying agenda to purify humanity of homosexuality is no better than Hitler’s desire for ethnic cleansing. Some may be thinking that that is a strong comparison, but I would say that it’s not strong enough. The IFB is guilty of many abuses against people, but this, in my opinion is one of the worst. Manipulating scripture to support an anti-gay agenda is typical IFB and just like every other problem brought out on this site shouldn’t be tolerated in the least.

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  1. Hi Steve. A few questions. First Jesus said in Mt. 12:31 that all manner of sin against the son of man shall be forgiven. This includes homosexuality. However this forgiveness depends on repentance, Lk13:3. Would you feel comfortable with a practicing pedophile teaching children in the church you attend? How about a practicing adulterer or murderer or drug addict? If one of these individuals has truly shown evidence of repentance I would be comfortable but I would be a fool to have my children taught by one of these other wise and the same goes for and unrepentant homosexual.

    1. Hi Paul,

      Your questions are trap questions, more commonly known as a loaded question fallacy. If I answer yes (I would feel comfortable with a practicing pedophile – murderer, adulterer, addict – teaching children in the church) then I just admitted that I support pedophilia (or murder, adultery, addiction, etc.) or at least pedophiles teaching Sunday School. If I answer no then I’ve just admitted that pedophilia (murder, adultery, addiction) is equal to homosexuality. Either answer raises suspicion about my perspective. I’ll look past that for now and share with you the problem with this line of reasoning (other than being fallacious).

      1. All those sins are secret sins (well except for murder – I seriously doubt a “practicing murderer” would be able to get away with it for very long). No one knows who is secretly a pedophile, an adulterer, an addict. Your children could be taught by a pedophile and you wouldn’t even know it.

      In actuality I was attending a church not to long ago when the pastor was let go for having an affair with his secretary. Their affair had lasted for 2 years. No one knew about it and the entire congregation was being taught by an adulterer for 2 years.

      During my research I discovered that hotels love when there’s a pastor’s conference in town because they receive their highest revenue from pay per view porn during that week. Pornography addiction is rampant among church leaders and guess what, no one knows about it.

      A few years ago, I attended a church with a gluttonous pastor. He decried every sin from the pulpit except for gluttony. He was a hypocrite. Preached at that church for 20 years.

      My last small group leader was indicted for embezzlement along with the church’s custodian and chief bookkeeper. No one knew about it. I was being taught by a theif.

      My point is that it’s an effort in futility to put so much effort and worry into what other people are doing or not doing. No one’s perfect. That’s why Jesus told us to forget about the speck in someone else’s eye and worry about the log in our own eye (Matthew 7). If you’re so distracted with trying to figure out what sins everyone is committing you won’t be able to learn what YOU need to learn.

      2. Repentance is a matter of the heart not behaviors. Only God knows who truly repents. I worked with an addict who went to church every Sunday and “truly showed evidence of repentance”, but relapsed a few days later. It’s not our place to judge the intent of someone’s heart. We look at the many times he relapsed and think “he must not be serious about his repentance” because we are judging him by his behavior. This is a very dangerous game to play. He very well may be “truly repentant”, but his struggles with addiction are just too overpowering at the moment. We judge him, label him as weak and a sinner and cast him aside. He doesn’t need that. He needs people who can empathize and show compassion. When all he receives is pious judgment he detects that and gives up. God sees his heart and is able to tell if he’s truly repentant or not. That’s not for us to decide or judge. But either way, that’s what repentance is supposed to be. Repentance isn’t a one time event, it’s a daily activity. That’s why we can’t rely on what we perceive as “evidence of repentance” because it’s a matter of the heart not behaviors.

      3. You seem to be confusing repentance with perfection. Since only God knows the heart (Jeremiah 17:10) and rewards/punishes accordingly, there’s no way that we humans could ever tell of an individual has repented or not. Anyone could “truly show evidence of repentance” and still be an imperfect sinner. That’s not a good gauge of someone’s heart or intent (we shouldn’t be gauging people’s heart in the first place – see #s 1 and 2 above).

      4. Homosexuality is a separate issue from pedophilia, adultery, murder, addiction, etc. They shouldn’t be compared.

      5. There’s a difference between being homosexual and engaging in homosexual behaviors. One is a matter of attraction (temptation) while the other is a matter of behavior. But again I submit to you that someone could be a homosexual (tempted to engage in homosexual behaviors) and we might never know it. Even so, someone could be engaging in homosexual behaviors and still we might never know it. What’s more, even if you somehow knew that your child’s Sunday School teacher was homosexual, how do you know if he/she is unrepentant or not? There’s absolutely no possible way (unless you are omniscient) that you could ever know that. (Besides, I think it’s a stretch to think that an unrepentant homosexual would be teaching Sunday School anyway – unless he/she was hiding it in which case you wouldn’t know, see above – so it’s of no consequence).

      So anyway, I hope that answers your questions.

      1. You are correct in what you say but what you misunderstood by the questions is that if we knowingly allow a person with questionable character to teach then we are putting the students at risk. As you say, usually we don’t know who these people are. That being said, how do I know whether or not a homosexual is active? When I mentioned the pedophile, etc. etc. I was talking about those who had been convicted and then claimed to have repented. These were not trap questions. I do not equate repentance with perfection. To truly repent means to discontinue living for self and to live for God. A practicing homosexual has not repented. There is a difference between a practicing homosexual, or whatever our past sin(s) have been and one who fails from time to time to resist temptation. Why did YOU ASSUME I was trying to trap you. The questions I asked are perfectly legitimate.

        1. We all have “questionable character”. No one has the right or duty (except for maybe a Judge and Jury in court – remember “innocent until proven guilty”?) to label anyone in such a way. The seminary trained pastor is no better than the lay leader who struggles with same sex attraction. If students study the Word (or have parents who guide them in what they are being taught) then there is no risk.

          Again, if we follow scripture then we realize that it’s none of our business to try and figure out if someone is repented or not. Repentance is an act between the individual and God – no one else. When we try to determine who has “truly repented” we are judging their heart. Unless you are God you have no authority, right, ability or power to do that.

          We are all “practicing” sinners. We all have hang ups that we struggle with on a daily basis. We all have to repent often. Why can’t a convicted pedophile repent? I don’t understand your reasoning here. Placing a hierarchy on sin is a manmade construct. There isn’t support for it in scriptures.

          I didn’t assume you were trying to trap me. The questions you asked were trap questions (research loaded question fallacy). It’s a logical fallacy. Regardless of intent, that’s what you did.

  2. We are not to judge another’s righteousness but we are to judge their works.(I Cor.6:1-20)
    This passage clearly shows that WE ALL sin in some fashion but it also shows that we are not to yield to the flesh. This includes unnatural desires and also the desire to denounce and harm, physically or emotionally those we find hard to like or care for.

    1. Um, I think you may have referenced the wrong passage, that’s not what 1 Corinthians 6 is saying. I don’t find permission for us to judge anyone in the Bible, not their righteousness nor their works. In fact Romans 2 tells us that it’s God’s responsibility to judge people according to their works. I’m not sure where you get that we are to judge people by their works. If you are thinking of John 15 please read this article for more information: http://www.baptistdeception.com/bearing-fruit-deception/

  3. 2. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? This is talking about judging problems in the church. Homosexuality is a problem in the church. Did you read not verse 9? 9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Effeminate? Abusers, of selves with mankind? These are homosexuals. We are to judge matters in the church and homosexuals are no different than adulterers or any of the rest of them.

    1. I’m sorry, but you’ve been mislead as to the meaning of this passage. I Corinthians 6:1-8 is Paul’s instructions for settling disputes among Christians. He’s saying that there should be no need for lawsuits or secular courts to settle a dispute (verse 1). In verse 2 he’s saying that Christians have the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ and will ONE DAY (“shall” – future tense) be judging the world and the angels based on the authority that is our inheritance (see Revelations 3:21 and John 5:22 for more on judging the world and 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 for information on judging angels). This is not a charge to judge people at present, just a reminder about the authority we carry with us which 1. should help us be mature enough to settle disputes amongst ourselves and 2. will someday be used to help judge the world and the angels.

      Verses 9-11 are a warning to not get caught up in sexual sin – that’s it, nothing more. Paul gives some examples of sexual sin, but this should NOT be interpreted as Paul placing a heavier weight on those sins – as if they are somehow worse that other sins. Christians in today’s society have placed a greater weight on homosexual sin above others for some reason, but I don’t find support for that in scripture.

      Furthermore and contrary to popular belief, homosexuality is NOT mentioned as one of those sins. “Effeminate” means male prostitute and “abusers of themselves with mankind” is actually a reference to sexual abuse (i.e. rape, molestation, coercion, etc. a small part of which was male on male abuse). It is incorrect to translate these two as “homosexuals”. I know its a popular teaching to translate “effeminate and abusers of self with mankind” as homosexualality, but when I researched the original language that’s not what I found.

      So again I must vehemently disagree with you. We aren’t to judge people and we aren’t to treat “homosexuals” as outcasts. Having same sex attraction does not disqualify someone from going to church or even serving in the church. If you are against a homosexual, adulterer, etc. teaching your Sunday School class then that’s YOUR prejudice NOT scriptures.

  4. No, I’m not mislead by this passage. This passage is about disputes among Christians which is what we have here. Regardless within this passage we are told that homosexuality is sin, The following passages tell us the same thing. You deny this. That is your choice.
    Paul tells us that we are to judge problems in the church. In a passage below he tells us to put away that wicked person. That person in this scripture is not gay but the fact that homosexuality is a sin means that a homosexual should be put out of the church also. As I said if a person repents or makes a statement that they have repented we must allow them to be a part of the body. No I don’t know who truly repents and I must take their word. Of course there are those who sin in secret but those who sin openly have not repented. You are no different than the IFB pastors. You change the truth to fit your self. You twist scriptures just like they do. You too are a control freak but instead of using charm you use debating skills to try and confuse issues. You are still in the grip of resentment and anger. I’m sorry that is so.

    Romans 1:

    22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
    23. And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
    24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
    25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
    26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
    30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
    31. Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
    32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    1 Corinthians 5

    1. It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
    2. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
    3. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
    4. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    5. To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
    6. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
    7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
    8. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
    9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
    10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
    11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
    12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?
    13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    1 Corinthians 6

    1. Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
    2. Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
    3. Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
    4. If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
    5. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
    6. But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
    7. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
    8. Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
    9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
    In these passages Paul judges and tells us to judge also.

    1. I never denied that homosexuality is a sin. I’m not sure how you came up with that based on our conversation. If you want to continue this discussion I request that you at least try to understand what I’m saying.

      I’m going to ignore your verbal attacks towards me and I’ll spare you the retaliatory Scriptural barrage that you just gave me and simply end with this…

      You said that “…the fact that homosexuality is a sin means that a homosexual should be put out of the church also.” and I find that extremely disturbing. Church is a place where sinners should be welcome. The only alternative is to have a church of all perfect people which we know isn’t possible. How do you expect to reach lost homosexuals for Christ with such a pious attitude looking down on homosexuals and refusing to allow them to enter the church? To “put someone out of the church” because they sin is extremely hypocritical and borders on heresy. I would find it laughable if it weren’t so sad. You should be ashamed of yourself.

      You accuse me of twisting scriptures to fit my agenda – I encourage you to look at your own use of scripture. You accuse me of anger and resentment, but in the prior sentence unleash your anger and frustrations out on me with verbal attacks and ad hominems – more hypocrisy.

      I’m not sure what else to say except that you’re doing nothing more than regurgitating the same old IFB dogma. Although I used scripture appropriately with discernment, proper exegesis and hermeneutics – despite what you think – I don’t really need scripture to tell me your approach to this issue is wrong, just common sense. I escaped those abusive teachings long ago and I want nothing to do with it now. I hope you will one day enjoy the freedom I now have from such harmful and abusive teachings.

      1. “If homosexuality and gay marriage is a sin (and I’m not convinced it is – more on this to come in future articles)”

        I think this is where Paul gets the idea that you are denying homosexuality is a sin. What is going to convince you? What further revelation do you need than the word of God?

        1. The Bible never calls homosexuality a sin. Sin is behaviors. Temptation isn’t a sin (if it were then Jesus was sinning when he was tempted by Satan). This is where more information will be about this topic: homosexualityandchristianity.com I’m currently working on reformatting my research into blog/website format. It’s taking longer than I though.

          1. Romans is very clear on this subject matter. There is only one way to read it, thru the spirit…do not add nor remove! I feel your committing the same acts as the IFB, being blinded by self/agenda/mandoctrine/manopinion,etc…I am of no particular denom. There is only one interpretation of scripture just as Christ said, there is one body, one spirit, one mind, one truth…may we relinquish our selfish passsions and put away our will and desires to bring glory to God…Steve, I’ve been studying your blog and have just begun, i have allot of reading to do…but what little I’ve read is your only putting yourself on their level (IFB) by arguing and guarding your own personal mandate…let the Holy Spirit do it’s work! And be cautioned regarding “The Calvary Chapel” movement..as they have birthed “The Whosoevers”…May God have mercy!

          2. Hi Josi. Thanks for writing. Regarding Romans – I beg to differ. Christian scholars are severely divided as to the meanings of Paul’s words in this passages. It has come to light that bible translators have translated scriptures through the lense of an anti-homosexual agenda and have not paid tribute to the actual meanings of what Paul was trying to communicate. If you’ve never heard of this before then I’m afraid that you haven’t heard both sides. There is NOT only one interpretation of scripture. That is a dangerous proposition to believe. There are typically at least two interpretations of scripture: 1. the traditional interpretations that’s been handed down from generation to generation and blindly believed and 2. the truth. My goal is to expose the truth. Unfortunately, many people just aren’t ready to hear the truth yet. Anyway, I go into great detail about the Romans passage and other passages about this topic in my doctoral dissertation which will soon be made public. I hope that you find it interesting enough to keep in mind for future reading.

            As far as your unfounded accusations about me… yes please do read more because I answer similar accusations many times throughout the site. I hope that you will take the time to read them. I do not put myself on the level of the IFB and I resent the implication. I’m an advocate for the victim while the IFB and their leaders are advocates for the perpetrators. I am doing the exact opposite of what the IFB is doing. We may have similar methods of getting our point across, but I can only surmise that the reason is because I was among the IFB cult for so long that some habits are simply harder to break than others.

            Thanks again for writing and I hope that you will rise above the typical objectors and seek understanding rather than provide arguments and castigation.

      2. I think it is unfair that in this part of the text, you accused the commenter with a “retaliatory scripture” barrage. If he only gave you part of a verse, perhaps you would accuse him of taking the verse out of context?
        Homosexuality IS unlike any other sin. The scripture calls it an abomination.
        God DOES love the homosexual; many in Sodom were practicing homosexuality, yet God gave them much time to repent.
        The reason that some Christians are so forceful when dealing with this sin, however, is most likely not because they think it is o abominable (and it is), but because they are irked with the whole agenda the LBGT people have on forcing others to accept them, or be labeled as “haters”.
        Not all Bible Believing christians are hateful, though many mis-represent Christ when confronting various sins, even minor ones.
        The mishandling of homosexuals by zealous Christians does not negate the seriousness of the sin. Romans makes it clear that homosexuals did not want to retain the knowlege of God so He gave them up to their own lusts. That is a reprobate. Knowing the risk these precious people run of searing their conscience, Christians are on high alert to warn them, thus the hysteria.
        Also, the influence…we all know that the more this invades our culture, this supposedly “alternative” lifestyle will influence the next genration. Thus, nipping it in the bud is essential.

  5. OOOOOOOOOk

    I’ll start over.
    I started this conversation in response to something you said in paragraph four of your introduction.

    Quote:
    “The IFB refuses to allow homosexuals to feel comfortable in church (or even attend church in some instances) and to have leadership/teaching roles in church. The IFB is outspoken against gay marriage and promotes homosexuality as a choice rather then a natural occurrence.”

    I asked a series of serious, to me, questions. Would you feel comfortable having a ‘practicing’ pedophile etc. to teach children in the church you attend. Please don’t mince word because this isn’t an exact copy of the questions. This contains the gist of what I asked. I also stated that a ‘practicing’ homosexual was no different. I meant that a practicing homosexual is unrepentant. You responded by telling me where I was mistaken because these people act in secret and I wouldn’t know that they were ‘practicing‘. That’s rather insulting. I said something else in which I supposed you were still angry or something and you asked why I assumed that. Later you accused my of judging, which I was, and said I had no right and when I used scripture that clearly shows that we are supposed to judge problems in the church you again started trying to teach me where I was wrong.

    Before I go any further I would like to give you a little of my background. I was born into a Catholic family. We attended church on Easter, maybe. I remember attending only two or three times. I attended public school. In the second grade a fellow student stood up and asked a question about shepherds in Greece. He asked if it was true that when the shepherds when up into the mountains in summer they used one another for women because they had to leave their wives at home. She said that was true because men had to relieve their urges. I asked my mother at home and she said the same thing. Later when a man asked me if he could give me oral sex I didn’t know what to say but agreed because of what my mother had said. This created in me a desire to have other men give me oral sex. While all this was going on my brother tried to rape me on a regualar basis. I fought him off until my twelfth year and then one day I snapped and lit into him with everything I had. He decided it was no longer worth the effort. I hated my brother for a very long time. Gradually I grew to hate homosexual and myself because of what I had become. At the age of thirty two I surrendered to Jesus and started my long road to recovery.
    At first I was fine but after a few weeks the old urge came back. Finally I realized I couldn’t win the battle alone and started calling upon the Lord. Oh yes, by this time I had read the word and knew that homosexuality is a blight upon any nation. I started praying every free moment. I prayed when I was alone, when I was driving to and from work. During lunch I would go off alone, read my New Testament and pray. When I was working at mundane tasks I would pray. I asked God to help me yield to Him so He could be my strength. After three years I realized I was no longer plagued by this perverse desire. Also I had lost my hatred for homosexuals. After a while I started asking myself why they do the things they do.

    The kleptomaniac steals because he/she has an emotional or mental problem and is compelled to do so. Some homosexuals have the same problem. The best we can do for these folks is try to keep watch over them and protect them from themselves as much as possible.
    Some thieves steal because they are hungry, need money for the family or some similar thing. I don’t know how to relate this to homosexuality.
    Some thieves steal because they are greedy, lazy or any one of a number of excuses.
    Some homosexuals do what they do because they derive a perverse pleasure from it and simply yield to the flesh. Some of these have no desire to change and will not repent. Others want to repent but are addicted to the perverse pleasure.

    There are many ministries for homosexuals and yes some of them are run by IFB churches. The most successful ministries are run by homosexuals who have repented. Sad but true most ‘straight’ people simply do not understand what these people have to overcome. Only God can truly heal.

    As for my IFB regurgitation I was never indoctrinated by the IFB. I was thirty two years old by the time I surrendered to God and had been in more denominations than most people have been in churches. I had already seen more hypocrisy than I could stand and had in fact given up on church altogether. My niece asked if she could be baptized in my pond and I said OK. After watching her for a while and being invited by the pastor I attended the IFB church in town and shortly thereafter surrendered to God. My first pastor was the best doctrinal teacher I have ever had and as far as I can remember he never mentioned homosexuals. Sorry to pop your bubble Steve but there ARE some good stable IFB churches.

    Yes there are some wacked out IFB churches but there are some wacked out NON-DENOMINATIONAL churches. I won’t go into what I know about some Calvary Temple churches.

    Steve, it might behoove you to find out a little more about someone before you start trying to tell them they don’t know anything.

    Goodbye Steve

    1. Paul, you’re welcome to spend your time trying to keep track of everyone’s sin if you want, but I’m not going to do that. I used to hear all the time: “Love the sinner, but hate the sin”, but I gave up on that. There are too many sinners. I can’t keep track of it all. I think a better idea is to hate my own sin and you hate your own sin and let others hate their own sin. “My sin is ever before me” (Psalm 51:3) – my sin is enough for me to worry about. If I’m worrying about everyone else’s sin and need for repentance then I’m being distracted from my own need for repentance. In the words of Mark Lowry: “How about you hate your sin, and I’ll hate mine, and then we can just love each other.” (see Matthew 7). You’re blinded by worrying about everyone else’s sin and need for repentance. That’s sad because it distracts you from your relationship with God. I pray that you will one day see that.

      1. Isn’t this entire site dedicated to being worried about other people’s sins?

          1. Sin is behaviors? Really?

            First of all, when most people talk about homosexuality, they are talking about the behavior. Especially when the world is talking about homosexuality, they are clearly not talking about someone who has same-sex attraction but does not act on it. Stop twisting things to prove your point.

            I do realize that temptation is not sin, but that’s not what we’re talking about. You also stated that same-sex marriage was not a sin. Do you think a same-sex couple gets married and then there is no “behavior” to follow.

            There is a ton of deception on this website. I do agree with a lot of things you point out here, but you have gone off the deep end and are just as bad as the IFB teachings that you intend to debunk.

            You have clearly been hurt by what you experienced in the IFB church, but you are throwing the baby out with the bath water on so many issues. You’re letting your own opinions, society’s views, and other factors shape your interpretation of scripture. I see a ton of taking verses out of context and using them to prove your own personal views. That’s what the IFB folks do, so you are basically the same as them, just with different views.

            Oh, and by the way, if only behavior is sin, why did Jesus say that hating your brother is the same as murdering him? Would you call anger or hate a behavior? Do you think it’s possible to sin in your mind/heart? Or is sin only when you act on these behaviors?

            I honestly haven’t read enough on this site to know where you stand on sin in general, and I also don’t care to read much more from what I’ve already seen.

            The real revelation of your heart is your response to Paul in this thread. The guy pours out his heart and bears his soul in order to engage you on a topic, and your response shows a total lack of compassion, love, understanding. You are the same as what you are trying to expose in the IFB camp. I’ll be praying for you, there’s a hardness/blindness in you that is profoundly sad.

          2. Yes, for this issue, the sin is in the behaviors. We aren’t talking about heart issues or anger or anything else. The topic is homosexuality. Quit trying to change the topic and manipulate the discussion please.

            “I honestly haven’t read enough on this site to know where you stand on sin in general, and I also don’t care to read much more from what I’ve already seen.”

            Sorry, but I’m not interested in wasting time discussing things with someone who’s too lazy to read what’s already written. That proves that you’re only interested in arguing not discussing. Your assumptions are getting in the way and, quite frankly, extremely annoying. You know nothing about me and you admit that you aren’t interested in finding out. You came here and attacked me and I have a right to defend myself. You’re pious judgmentalism and holier than thou attitude isn’t welcome here. Don’t bother replying because I’ve instructed the moderator to discard your replies. Go away and harass someone else.

    2. Paul , if you have any good IFB church’s names that i might seek counsel from could you please email me at [email protected] .. I suffer from SSA , and am looking for someone within my denomination of the IFB church . Because i do know that there must be some out there who are willing to deal with this issue in the way in which Jesus would do so . I do agree many IFB church’s are dealing with the issue improperly . More grace is needed with many of the pastors , And more true understanding of what the issue is and what causes it in the first place . I do not believe in confirming the homosexual or accepting them into the church if they are practicing in their sin . Open sin in the church was not to be tolerated .. Yes many secretly are living in sin , but God will not tolerate those who are pridefully snubbing their noses in Gods face , daring him to judge them .. That is the difference in what most of your conversation was about with Steve . So if you have any good names of good men who are understanding and want to offer true help , please refer them to myself if you can .. thank you .

  6. Steve,
    You have gone from a prison based religion to an all out liberal view of God’s word. There are some twisted views from the IFB but many of them do cling to the gospel and stand against sin and the practice there of. Your site is pathetic on so many biblical points that it’s not worth the effort you have given it. Kill the site and keep your liberal views to yourself. Your poison is no better for man than the poison you’re trying to prevent.

    1. Hmmm. Very thoughtful Rocky. How long did it take you to come up with that brilliant comment?

      Thanks for providing more evidence of the judgmental attitude that I speak out against on this site.

  7. I find the entire homosexual issue a chicken-egg problem. Immorality of all kinds is forbidden. And my Bible says sin is sin. So which is worse, a same-sex couple in a committed relationship or a church pianist who leads the Gossip department? Yes, the church is full of sinners, some secret and some blatant. Who do we allow to teach? Who can be an usher? I’ve found that a Deacon who is unfaithful to his wife isn’t really interested in Gods things. Shall we leave conviction and repentance to the Holy Spirit instead? Tho older I get the more I see HIS dealing with an individual’s sin much more effective than mine. If I preach and teach the Word faithfully and do not get on “hobby horses” the church is much stronger. If I know a gay person is present and preach AT him/her, then I am in the way of what God wants to do in their life.

  8. Do yourselves a favour… stop reading that book… god doesn’t exist… set yourselves free and get outside and connect with living.

    I was a fundamentalist bible bashing god fearing Baptist…..

    Went to the church, the school, chapels etc etc…. disconnected from the evils of the world and indoctrinated. As with all cults, it took years to deprogramme. Now i believe in no heaven, no hell, no god and no devil. As a consequence I live a life without fear and filled with love. I didn’t learn any of that from an old book and dirty minded men and women who love to intimidate and maintain fear in the lives of so many.

    1. Wait, god doesn’t exist or you believe there’s no god? Which is it.

      1. A single judeo christian god entity does not exist, except in the consciousness of those who choose to subscribe to a mono theistic view. So the god is only a figment of that belief system. And the requisite propaganda books and other paraphernalia needed to justify and somehow prove existence. Throughout the thousands of years on this plane called earth many gods have been believed in. My question has been why do humans have to believe in one version of a god, a idea of heaven and hell. The western civilisation is not the be all and end all or authority on matters relating to belief in deities. Steve, there are many gods.

        1. If memory serves, the “requisite propaganda books and other paraphernalia” of the Christian faith do provide justification and evidence that their god does exist. Your denial of that doesn’t negate it.

          Personally, I don’t know if there are god’s or not, but if you make a claim that a particular god doesn’t exist then you also bear the burden of proof. What proof do you have that the “single judeo christian god entity does not exist…”?

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