I Corinthians 14:33 has long been misinterpreted by the IFB leading to a very dangerous deception.
I was taught in my IFB experience that when making a decision God would give me peace about the right direction and I Corinthians 14:33 was always quoted to justify the idea. The KJV writes: “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
I remember several big decisions in my life where I was very confused and my parents and pastor would always tell me, “God is not the author of confusion, Satan is the one confusing you”. Then they would proceed to tell me that God would give me peace about which direction to take. (Then they would give a subtle hint that the one God would give me peace about is the one that fit more inline with the teachings of the IFB, but that’s for another post).
There are several things to point out about this topic that are important to point out and be aware of. The first thing to notice is the mis-interpretation of the KJV in this verse. The KJV incorrectly interprets the this verse by using the word “confusion”. The correct interpretation should be “disorder” rather than “confusion”. When interpreted correctly we see that “God is not the author of DISORDER“. The NLT, by the way, gets it right: “For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people.”
The second thing to consider is the context of the entire passage. Paul is instructing the church at Corinth about the order of their worship services. He is giving them instructions so that their worship would be orderly. It’s pretty clear from the context that Paul is talking about God’s desire for us to be orderly.
It’s important for the IFB to stop making this deception. There are times when we all will be confused about things and even if we are confused it’s not because Satan is confusing us nor is it because we don’t have peace from God about a particular situation. This idea of God giving us peace about the decision He wants us to make is unfounded and unscriptural.
Many people suffer because they have a difficult time finding peace in certain situations. There are, however, situations where peace can’t be found. That doesn’t mean God isn’t involved. I’m saddened by this abusive teaching and misunderstanding of God and I Corinthians 14:33. Please remember, when you are facing a difficult decision or you are confused about a path of life and someone tells you “God is not the author of confusion” they are not really understanding what they are saying.
On a related note the IFB has trumped up the idea that the mental illness of anxiety is related to “being out of God’s will” because of this verse. They will tell you that if you are anxious or confused that you have Satan’s influence on you and that you need to “get right with God since He is not the author of confusion.” Be very careful to make sure you understand that this isn’t true.
Hello Steve,
Good post. Okay, I know that the question that I’m about to ask is slightly off topic, but I was wondering what happens to the folks who decide to enter a I.F.B congregation with a different Bible translation (i.e. other than the K.J.V) or reject K.J.V. onlyism? What would be the repercussions? I’m just curious.
Wow! I read this article and am so confused! LOL
Actually, I looked up the word confused in the Strong’s Concordance and found out that Steve is right. Reference #181 (in the Greek section) says the correct word is disorder. It also could mean commotion, tumult, or confusion. In the context of a church service, commotion could also work. One thing I have learned is to look up the word in the Greek or Hebrew, but then look at the context to figure out exactly which meaning fits. This is just another instance of where I had something practically “shoved down my throat” as I was growing up, and then find out that it’s not true after all.
An independent minister may have to clarify one’s position. This is also true for other leaders such as elders, deacons, boardmembers and trustees, teachers, youth leaders, etc… I am fully aware that there are many associations. I use the word interdependent here cause while i believe the independents may be financially independent in the sense they own their assets, they often avail themselves of services by other outside ministries. Technology brings these teachings to our house even if we don’t physicially attend a particular church. I am not saying your church does teach this. Others do. This is why we have this forum. I’m not an administrator myself. They allow me to post on this website, but they don’t necessarily agree with me. Everyone who reads my posts has just as much right to disagree with the administrators, other posts, or even mine. We talk about our experiences. Experiences are not just based on individual churches but on large groups and their affiliations too. In the 1970s, it was through door-to-door visitations and mailings. Now it’s much more. In respect to technology, zappers and shredders also provide us an option when we recognize falacies. A person who does not read the Bible may not pick out the falacy as somebody who has studied the scriptures and cross references.
@C
C.
Stone:
I have had that experience also.
C:
We don’t need to physically attend a church or become a member. The media brings this information to us through TV, radio, books, videos, guest speakers, retreats, conferences,
and in sometimes, even door-to-door visitation or literature and mail. I am written other posts on other topics. Do I think this is true for every church. No. Affiliations are important whether or not an individual church owns its assets or not. If a church owns its assets, it may have some flexibility in the decisions it makes in respect to which organizations it affiliates oneself with; however, it’s important to know the teachings of different affiliations. I do agree with you though that there are many affiliations and they change often. When a subject comes up for a motion, second motion, vote, and implementation, it’s important for the church not only to know its own beliefs and values but also the values of the ministries it supports. churches sometimes have to have their ministers clarify their position to the congregation when there is a dispute. This is also true for teachers and elders and deacons and other members of the church administration. If they don’t clarify their position, others will assume that they are in agreement. I realize you may not agree with everything on this website. It’s a forum. It gives people an opportunity to discuss their concerns. It also gives people the opportunity to defend themselves and their ministries. Some forums don’t. I am not one of the official administrators of this website. I am just a blogger. I am certain that at times the administrators don’t agree with me either. But they still allow me to post my concerns. They allow others to respond in agreement or disagreement just like you have.
Independent Baptist Churches own their property. In this way they are independent in that they may be more flexible in their decision processes. Many do go outside their church and rely on external ministries for a variety of their needs. I am not saying all churches do this. I am not saying all churches teach this who call themselves independent either. I am saying though that this is a popular teaching among enough that it concerns others. We think about physical attendance of church in respect to church membership. People are also influenced by other media including books, movies, TVs, and the internet, etc… The technology brings these teachings to our house even if we are not members ourselves. On other postings I have mentioned that we have choices. One choice we have is t urning of the TV or radio
Back to the IFB, I am somewhat familiar with the ifb and personally know that in one particular group in OK when one needs to make even a personal decision one has to pray about it which is good but what praying about it means to them is they have to go to Dr. so and so and ask his opinion. Whatever he tells them is supposed to be the Lord’s will and if they don’t obey it will “reflect against the church” so they do the will of the Dr. This to me is mind control and brainwashing. Instead of seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit they go to a mere man. He seemingly is their “holy spirit guide”.
Hi. This is my first post on this Website. I would like to say first that I feel sorry for all of the people that have been hurt because of the IFB churches. Next I want to mention something about this article. The writes of this articles states “The NLT, by the way, gets it right: “For God is not a God of disorder but of peace, as in all the meetings of God’s holy people”. “. I think this is a pretty bold claim. The maker of this website admits to not even having a perfect bible. I saw that on the KJV-only Page for question #2 of Pastor Melton’s questions to KJV critics. Something more appropriate for the writer of this article to write would have been “I believe, the NLT, by the way, gets it right. That’s a suggestion. It was an interesting article with points well made but I still think the correct word here should be confusion instead of disorder. The KJV, NASB, ESV, and NKJV all have the word confusion. These are word for word translations. The NIV, NLT, TNIV, and NIRV all have the word disorder. These versions are more paraphrases. I found these versions on biblegateway.com. I believe the correct word in this passage should be confusion. I don’t believe God is an author of confusion or disorder but I think the correct word in this verse should be confusion. I could be wrong though. I’m not going to be bold enough and say the correct word is confusion but I believe the correct word is confusion.
Also I want to mention that I attended an IFB church for about 4 months. This website was the reason I left the church. The church I attended was a very friendly IFB church and much unlike the other IFB churches I heard on this website. They had some similarities too. The IFB church I went to used the KJV but was not KJV only. The pastor and the intern pastor said they both use other versions of the bible as well for reading. They used the KJV only for preaching and memorization. Also the music was hymns. I have no problem with that though and I would prefer hymns during church. I like CCM better but I like hymns better during church. The pastor told me you can dress how you want when you come to church. Most people dressed up but there was no dress code. I wore casual clothes every time I attended and in no way was I looked at as inferior. The pastor did not say anything about attending movies. I rarely go to the movies anyway because in my opinion its mostly garbage. There was not a rule about questioning the pastor. I asked him questions all the time and in no way did he force his opinion and his views on me. He and the intern pastor were very friendly and welcomed all sorts of questions. No one in the church ever sexually abused me or molested me. Also I don’t suspect there was any of that going on in the IFB church as well. The church was rather small only about 50 people. The IFB church did teach tithing. I did not agree with this. I think it’s rare that someone will find a church though that is absolutely perfect and lines up 100% with the Word of God. The pastor never even asked me how much money I was giving.
I am a roughly new believer. I am a babe in Christ. By no means am I an expert in Scripture. I attended a Methodist Church before moving over to the IFB church. The Methodist Church I attended hurt me. The people in the Methodist Church I attended ignored me and it hurt my feelings. The more times I tried to connect and get involved it felt like I was ignored more. The IFB church I attended was exactly the opposite. The IFB church I attended was very friendly toward me and showed me more love than the Methodist church that I attended. Also it should be noted that the only friend I have is the Lord. Before I came to know the Lord I didn’t have any friends. Now I have I one friend and that is the Lord. I sincerely desire to do the Will of the Lord with all of my heart. I want to be a long term missionary, Lord willing. I want to go to seminary or bible college. One thing that kind of bothered me though was that the Pastor said I had to go to an IFB college. I also enrolled in a missionary class called the perspectives class. It’s a nationwide class. Some of you might have heard of it. The pastor had me drop the class and get a refund. He said that it was ecumenical and we needed to be separate. He said that I would get all these strange doctrines thrown at me. He was telling me about this IFB separation stuff. This separation stuff was kind of new to me. Anyways this was kind of disappointing to me.
Anyways I’m no longer at the IFB church because I stumbled across this website. I also saw that 20/20 video and it was kind of surprising. My IFB church that I attended was probably one of the more liberal ones.
I do think that most IFB churches are probably sincere and try to please the Lord but they might be misguided.
When I first became a believer I used the NLT. Now I use the KJV. I switched from the NLT to the KJV because I wanted a more literal bible translation. I would prefer the more literal translations like the KJV, NASB, and ESV. I am not KJV only though. I understand there are some short comings in the KJV. Why do they call the NASB the NASB? Why not the NASV? Is there anything wrong with using the KJV and not being KJV only? Greg what are your thoughts about all of this? I see you all over this website posting comments. Also I don’t believe they hung the dead body of Jesus on the cross like it says in Acts 5:30. Someone might think that from reading it but that’s not what it says. 2nd Corinthians 6:11-13 is little hard to comprehend in the KJV.
Anyways I love the Lord and he’s my only friend that I have. If your going to reply to my posting please be kind and courteous.
Also I put my name as John 10:10 because that’s my favorite bible verse.
For the KJV lovers:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
For the NIV lovers:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Sorry if I left your favorite version out but I feel like 2 versions is enough for a posting. If you want to look it up in your favorite version go to biblegateway.com. your favorite version might not be there though.
The Lord loves us all,
A Brother in Christ
Hi John – You may not have many friends, but you have the best friend anyone of us can have and that is the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
Regarding the using the KJV, I have always said that it is a fine translation, if you like it and can understand it, by all means have at it. I do believe there are better, more accurate translations, but God has certainly used and can use the KJV.
I hope the kind and courteous comment wasn’t directed at me, you say you have seen my post all over this site, I don’t think I have ever been ugly or discourteous to anyone that didn’t start being ugly to me first.
We often have the nastiest of the nasty of IFBers stop by here and call us everything but christian brothers, so naturally they are often met with the same type of response.
Enjoyed your post, may God richly bless and use you and swing by here anytime.
Greg,
Thanks for your response. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The “If your going to reply to my posting please be kind and courteous” comment was not directed at you but anyone that would reply to my posting. I see how you might of thought this but that’s not what it was. I’m sorry for this misunderstanding. If I didn’t think you would be kind our courteous I wouldn’t ask for your thoughts in particular. I see you to be very supportive and encouraging for people you leave IFB churches. I’m not sure if you reply to every comment, but I did not want to miss out on your comments and your support even though I probably attended a more liberal and non-abusive IFB church.I hope I didn’t seem to demanding either in asking for thoughts from you. I was just looking for some encouragement and support that I see from a person who gives it all over this site. From what I’ve seen, I would agree that you have not been ugly or discourteous to anyone that has not been to you first. Again thanks for your reply and sorry for the misunderstanding.
The Lord loves us all,
A brother in Christ
Hi John – No worries, it’s the internet and it can get confusing some times, I have done the exact same thing myself. When all you have to go on are words on a screen, and you don’t have any other visual clues as if you were sitting down talking with someone, it’s inevitable that confusion will raise its ugly head occasionally.
You are the second person today that has commented about my much posting here on Baptist Deception, I’m feeling somewhat self-concious. There are several other “regulars” that post here. Where are you guys? But the only one that I’ve seen this week is Katie.
Anyhow last year I found “Baptist Deception” and I’m really thankful to Steve for providing this forum for hurting folks that have been abused by IFB’s (yes not all are abusive) It is very therapeutic to speak about your hurt to others that have experienced similar things, guess its kinda like AA, so I feel determined to speak to anyone who comes on here and shares their stories of abuse at the hands of the IFB. The other thing I really enjoy is debating with KJVonly’s, these are the guys that believe that there is no other bible except the KJV, and call other translations “perversions” I have been retired for about 2 years and one of the things I have done is study the translation issue, it’s sort of a hobby. It is fun, because they often think I’m anti-kjv, which is false, I’m just anti-kjvonlyism.
I’m rambling, and I need to cut some grass. I probably won’t have as much time to be on here as the weather warms, as I am helping my son start a lawn mowing business. (don’t know about a business, just cutting a few neighbors yards) So see ya, drop by anytime, I’ll have fresh lemonade most days!
John,
I think the debate on KJV only and other translation has not gotten anywhere. I like simplifying things and making life easier for all of us: Look back and do a research on how Jesus Christ words were recorded. Look back and see how the Old Testament writings were recorded. You will find that many writings were handed down by word of mouth, some were recorded by early writings, some waited until they could. Look at the 4 gospels, personalities of the writers were manifested in the gospels when they wrote them. My point is this: Will we find that in the process of documentations, that some of the real literal words spoken by the prophets and disciples were lost? Absolutely? So, in the original translation such as the Greek, Hebrew, how could;d we know for sure that from there on KJV it was completely without a doubt spoken word from word from let us say Abraham or even Jesus Christ.
Do you know that the bible has been translated in thousands of different languages and 1 word can have 10 synonyms with this. So, would you say that all the translators of the the KJV ones were all Saints (Spirit filled, without mistakes in translating them?) KJV was done simply due to King James request. It was the language in the 1600’s. The language in many countries in the 20th century have moved on. There are some lost tribal languages that anthropologist are even trying to discover, can you and I let us say, try to go back to those so that I can understand who God is? Can you and I who now uses Computers, electric car, say let us go back to ink and pen and horses because it is the only right thing? No.
Here is the most beautiful thing: The scriptures is Spirit filled, it is alive and it speaks in my heart. without it, I will be lost. If my life does not reveal the applications of the scriptures, and I fight for KJV, how in the world can I believe your arguments? There are many IFB’s who are so out there that fights this KJV debate and they are caught with molestations, rape and Pastors not caring, instead covering up for them.,( watch the 20/20 coverage last week) I can go on and on. Think clearly. I know many contemporary reading Christians that love the Lord and will humiliate these KJV’s only by their examples.
Marian
Marian,
Hi. It seems like I might have offended you with my post but my intention was not to offend anyone. I just want to clarify something. I was not debating on the KJV only issue. You asked:
“So, in the original translation such as the Greek, Hebrew, how could;d we know for sure that from there on KJV it was completely without a doubt spoken word from word from let us say Abraham or even Jesus Christ.”
I don’t think we can no for sure. I was just giving my opinion that the correct word in this verse should be confusion instead of disorder. I would have to side more with the literal translations such as the NASB, KJV, and ESV. They all have the word confusion. In my opinion the correct word should be confusion. I could be wrong though.
Also I think you might be getting the wrong impression here. Please forgive me if I have the wrong impression. I am not KJV-only. I just simply have a preference for the more literal translations such as the NASB, KJV, and ESV. Right now I primarily use the KJV but by no means am I KJV-only.
You asked:
“Do you know that the bible has been translated in thousands of different languages and 1 word can have 10 synonyms with this?” No I did not know the bible was translated in thousands of languages. I would have guessed hundreds of languages. Yes 1 word can have 10 synonyms with it but I still believe the best word in this verse should be confusion. That’s just my opinion. I could be wrong. I don’t believe God is the author of confusion or disorder but I believe the correct word in this verse should be confusion.
You asked:
“So, would you say that all the translators of the the KJV ones were all Saints (Spirit filled, without mistakes in translating them?)” I don’t know all the KJV translators but I would guess most of then were probably believers. In fact I don’t know any other translator of any other bible version. No, I don’t think the KJV is without mistakes.
You said/asked:
“KJV was done simply due to King James request. It was the language in the 1600?s. The language in many countries in the 20th century have moved on. There are some lost tribal languages that anthropologist are even trying to discover, can you and I let us say, try to go back to those so that I can understand who God is?” Well, I can understand the KJV fairly well and I like using it. I am not against people using other translations of the bible. Greg even said it was a fine translation of the bible. I use the KJV but find some hard passages hard to comprehend but for the most part it works fine for me.
Also right now I only use the KJV for reading. That doesn’t mean I’m KJV only. When I can’t understand something in the KJV I sometimes look at other bible versions to see what those say. I don’t switch off versions every day because I think that would be very confusing. I think its best for me to stick with just one version so its not confusing. I still look at other versions to see what they say if I can’t understand something though.
Greg, you might be reading this. I have a question for you if you don’t mind. I think I saw you make a post a while ago somewhere saying you have about 30 different translations and you refer to multiple of them from time to time. Do you switch off reading different versions every day? If so, is it confusing for you? Would you recommend reading different versions every day? I think it would be pretty confusing for me. If I did this I would probably switch off reading the NASB, KJV, and ESV every day because those would be my preferred versions. Don’t feel obligated to answer this I’m just looking for some recommendations or advice.
Marian you said:
“Here is the most beautiful thing: The scriptures is Spirit filled, it is alive and it speaks in my heart. without it, I will be lost.” Good, I’m glad it does. I did not mean to offend you with my posting. Use the version you want. I just prefer to use the KJV. The KJV does the same thing for me as it does for you.
Marian you said:
“If my life does not reveal the applications of the scriptures, and I fight for KJV, how in the world can I believe your arguments?” I’m not really sure how to answer this because I’m not really sure what your trying to say. I think this verse might apply to your question:
“God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.” (Romans 3:4). That’s from the KJV.
“Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.” That’s from the NIV.
Greg is this an appropriate response for her question? I am not expert in scripture but I think I’ve seen people post that before on this website. I don’t remember if it was coming from people Pro-IFB or anti-IFB.
Marian you said:
“There are many IFB’s who are so out there that fights this KJV debate and they are caught with molestations, rape and Pastors not caring, instead covering up for them.,( watch the 20/20 coverage last week) I can go on and on.”
I saw that video. I’m not going to deny the things that happened in all those IFB’s. In fact this website was the reason I left my IFB. I can say from my experience that my IFB was very friendly and non-judgemental contrary to what I have heard from other IFB churches. It sounds like to me that you did not have a good experience with an IFB church. I’m sorry about that. But I’m just saying that my IFB church was not like a lot of the other ones I heard. They practiced some things I didn’t agree with like tithing but I don’t think your going to find a perfect church that lines up 100% with the Word of God. They also did outreach and evangelism what they refer to as “Soul-winning”. I think all churches should be doing this and I do commend the IFB for that. If it wasn’t for this website I would probably still be at that same IFB. Again I’m sorry for your bad experience if you had one but My IFB church was very friendly.
Marian you said:
“Think clearly”. I am a new believer in the Lord and I am a babe in Christ. I am not an expert in Scripture and I am not perfect. I am just giving my opinions and views. I’m sorry if I offended you. Most people posting on this website probably have more experience with Christianity than me.
Marian you said:
“I know many contemporary reading Christians that love the Lord and will humiliate these KJV’s only by their examples”. By saying “Contemporary reading Christians” I’m assuming you are referring to people who read non-KJV bibles. Forgive me if I have the wrong assumption. By saying “KJV’s only” I assume you are referring to people who are KJV-only. Also I’m not trying to be a smart alec here but if you’re not referring to KJV-only by saying this it gives me a different impression. Yes I would probably agree with your statement. But I’m guessing the reverse probably could be true to. I’m guessing many KJV-only reading Christians that Love the Lord will humiliate the non-KJV Christian readers buy their example. That’s just a guess though. I’m guessing there are a lot of non-KJV only contemporary Christian readers that don’t act Christ-Like as well. That’s just a guess though.
Anyways I hope I covered all your points and clarified some things with you. Also I am sorry if the IFB church hurt you. Also I am not intending to offend you with this response nor did I attempt to offend you or anyone else with any of my postings.
If anyone is going to reply please be kind and corteous.
The Lord loves us all,
A Brother in Christ
John,
I apologize for misreading your post. I have dealt with the KJVs only within the last few days, so I think I am just hyper with this. Thank you for being civil in your response, if we can only have Christians like you, things will be easier. I am truly happy to meet someone who just became a Christian. The most beautiful experience I have ever had in my walk with the Lord besides being Saved was to teach a Sunday School disciple ship group where new believers gather together and give testimonies of their lives, it was so surreal and it does not get old.
I am a Filipino and my language is Tagalog, I got saved with the Tagalog version of the KJV. I grew in my understanding of the scriptures with the NIV. However, I taught using the KJV. We gave ESV versions to our outreach ministries to children. We knew giving them the KJV was not going to be productive.
I was a part of the church that was covered by 20/20. I love that church dearly and love my brothers and sisters in the Lord. But God is greater than it all. The dynamics of what has taken place is complex. However, God does simplify things. He is real and He loves the victims. He loves the innocents and the Fatherless. When you look at this from this angle, it will become clear. God is certainly beautiful.
May God bless you,
Marian
I know, I have heard this misinterpretation many times. I just came out of IFB. But I also think many Christians in general has the wrong interpretation of this verse. We get confused, because as a rational human being, we look at all the options available for us, some decision are really really hard to do. Being confused is not a sin. Knowing that a certain decision in your heart is going to create a potential hazard is what you need to stay away from. If we make the mistake, we learn and hopefully we do not make the same mistake. I am so tired of all these pharisees who seem to know everything for you, but makes tragic mistakes themselves, so tell me who is really confused.
Marie well put. I agree totally.
I am independent fundamental baptist and I have never been taught what you are saying? Not sure which church you went to but i don’t think its right for you to clump all IFB church doctrines and beliefs with one misplaced church experience
I’ve had this particular verse used so many times. I feel vulnerable because I don’t want to feel vulnerable that if this happened once it could happen again. Sometimes that vulnerablility makes me feel overly defensive even in situations where I really don’t need to feel that way. i know approval is important to me and that’s probably why I feel vulnerable. I’d like to hope with age and experience, I’m less vulnerable to be taken over. There is a difference between having God in one’s life and having a “system of religion” in one’s life.
I didn’t have to do this. I did this on my own. I wasn’t raised this way. There were others who did question what I was doing so there was time to get out or not to go in the first place. That is what is so unsettling in the way my experience might be different from those who were raised in that environment who didn’t have that option.
Good points all, tks Steve.