Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception

Exposing the Dangerous Teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Denomination

Robert Fry – Pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Plattsburgh, NY Deception


As I’ve stated many times throughout the site, my intention is not to call out specific churches/pastors and I still decline to do that. The one exception I have, though, is when a Pastor contacts me and is abusive. I see that as a legitimate way of exposing the things I discuss on the site. When I’m contacted by someone who wants to troll and/or attack me I have a right to defend myself. This type of cyber bullying needs to be exposed and shared. Someone needs to hold these pastors who think they are above the law accountable. With that in mind I’d like to share a recent attack and provide an example of what to do in these situations.

I was recently contacted by Robert Fry – Pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Plattsburgh, NY. I was actually a bit excited when I first read his message to me because it seemed to be a genuine request for more information. What I would come to find out, however, is that it was nothing more than a ruse. The deception and mockery were oozing from his second message. I had a visit to their website and saw that they are an almost exact replica of several of the churches I was in growing up (shudders going up and down my spine).

I can’t help but post this for all to read and see. I don’t like posting content like this because I think it distracts from the content that I really want to share, but I can’t let something like this go by without exposing it to the world for all to see. Maybe one day these abusive pastors will learn their lesson. One can only hope.

Below you will find our short interchange, word for word without any changes. I don’t know if I’ll ever hear back from Robert Fry again, honestly I hope I don’t, but I do know that what he has done is a shining example and I offer it as proof for those who remain skeptical about the message I promote on this website.

I would also like this to serve as an example of how to set boundaries with people like this. They don’t listen to reason (more like don’t understand reason). They are only interested in pushing their dogma and agenda on others. When something like this happens, though, try your best to be reasonable, speak truth and don’t let them intimidate you or distract you from the topic at hand. They are very adept at using distraction and logical fallacies to try and trip you up or pull you off task. Often, however, the only recourse one has is to cut them off and, if need be, pursue legal action for harassment. As you can see I was able to see his ulterior motives for contacting me right away so I wasn’t drawn into his delusion of superiority. Seeing this quickly helped me to know that I had to set firm boundaries right away and ask him not to contact me again. Thankfully he honored that request.

So without further ado, here’s the exchange in all it’s glory…


Robert Fry Wrote:

Folks – I am really curious about this designation “IFB.” I was ordained as a Baptist minister back in 1969. I have been an independent Baptist pastor through all of these years. I have bumped into this designation a few times over the last couple of years and I am wondering where or what exactly is this “IFB.” I had no idea through all of these years that independent Baptist pastors or ministers were so organized. Would you be kind enough to pass along their headquarters because I sure have some questions to ask! Maybe a telephone number would be good or how about a website for the “IFB.” All of these years I have been out here loving the Lord Who saved me and serving the people He has brought my way and I know I missed all of this information. I will look forward to hearing from you when you get the chance. Tanks. Your servant in Christ, Bob Fry


My reply:

Thanks for writing and for your questions. I talk about these things in this article: http://www.baptistdeception.com/independent-deception/ The information about the organizations you are referring to is at the bottom of the article.

Please let me know if you have additional questions.
Thanks again.

Steve


Robert responded (this is the message that I was referring to that was oozing deception and mockery):

Steve,

I am really sorry but perhaps you misunderstand and maybe I just made myself unclear in all of this and I have that problem sometimes. It has been a few years since I was immersed in what was scholarly articles and I did have a sponsoring professor who was so hard about some issues when I did my work back when. But I saw where you referenced “the IFB” and that would appear to suggest some kind of organization with a telephone number and again back in the day some kind of address (now so many are operating out of the cloud who knows any more, hey do you have an address, just asking). I take it you are aware that at first glance “IFB” does refer to Independent Fashion Bloggers or even Indian Fine Blanks. And you are no doubt aware that they have phone numbers and addresses. Then there is this:

What does IFB stand for in text?
IFB Industries Limited originally known as Indian Fine Blanks Limited started their operations in India during 1974 in collaboration with Hienrich Schmid AG of Switzerland. The product range includes Fine Blanked components, tools and related machine tools like Straighteners, Decoilers, Strip loaders and others.

Listen I am not trying to be a trouble maker of any sort just hoping for some grammatical honesty in all of this. It does not appear that you are able to furnish either a telephone number or an address for your designation of “the IFB.” I am going back some years now but I do remember grabbing a rather heavy book when I did proofing that sort of set rules to use. I know it had Chicago written all over it and my editor demanded that I check and even recheck so many tedious items and I know that you are not bound by these accepted journalistic rules and I realize that English is not what it use to be.

But for the sake of the poor Indian Fine Blanks (otherwise known as and referred to as IFB) and those wonderful people over at Independent Fashion Bloggers (who also want to be known as IFB) and remember those two do have addresses, phone numbers, and even websites and that is as close as anyone can get when referencing IFB. As far as my struggle at referencing “the IFB” other than those two and a few others none of which seem to fit your designation, there are no other organizations bearing that acronym. However, oh could I be wrong and that is why I asked of you for some help.

You did list some organizations but I did not see any that were “the IFB.” Did I miss something or in your list was that particular group not listed for some reason. Or were you suggesting that over the organizations that you listed there is some other kind of super maybe invisible organization that tells those visible organizations what to do and what to believe? I really want to get in touch with that BIG organization and cut through this middle-man mess.

Yea, I have been kind of hard on you but not as hard as my sponsoring professor would have been on you and nowhere near as hard as my editor would have been after all the professor was a Christian, he just wanted our work to stand up.

I wonder if you are interested but in case you are, unless there is some kind of tangible organization (such as the old Palestine Liberation Organization, it was not very well organized but it was, with some way of actually touching the critter), your designation properly should read independent fundamental Baptists. I am afraid however that might disturb some preconceived ideas that you needed to promote in your article. It is funny how the rules of language can do that

Oh, one other thing, fundamental is always to be viewed as a subset of some other entity. For instance back when I played college football, my coach was a raging fundamentalist! Oh was he! I suppose some might be shocked to learn that Dan Devine was a fundamentalist but they never played for him and each spring (spring and then August practice) he would begin by saying, Gentleman we are going to learn the fundamentals of this game and if we somehow we do, we have a chance, slight as it may be, of beating Oklahoma. You see he was a football fundamentalist!

Hey listen I wish you the best. I am not quite sure what your objective might be but please have a sense of appreciation for our dear language.

Oh, if you would like an address for the Insurance Fraud Bureau, another IFB, or even the Illinois Farm Bureau, yet another, and unlike your mystical “IFB” these all have addresses and phone numbers and even websites, I will get them for you. To clear up this misunderstanding of our English language, it would be a privilege to do so.

Bob Fry


Now that I saw Robert’s true intent, I responded:

Sorry, you lost me. I don’t understand what you’re getting at. It sounds like you’re just being a smart ass. Read my website and you’ll understand what IFB means.

Thanks

Steve

PS – Sarcasm and mockery are signs of a weak mind. If you wish to discuss the issues I present on my website please pose a question or counter what’s on the site and I’ll address it. I do not waste my valuable time in foolish pissing contests with closed minded fools.


Robert replied:

“smartass”

So much for the high road here.

My request for this information was because of an article my editor asked me to write on the subject of “the IBF.” He knew my background and was surprised when I told him that I really did not know about a group called “the IBF.” So he asked me to go digging. I came to your website and you referenced this group so I think I was rather polite but persistent, journalists as you understand are taught to be persistent. You seemed to have something to add to this discussion. I guess I did not imagine getting slammed with such common vulgarity. Obviously, you are not available for thoughtful inquiries as simply requesting an address for “the IBF.” I am curious, another thing about the job, curiosity, why you would respond in such a manner unless the question really bothered you. What is bothering you about the question that was asked? Why are you having such a hard time with an address for the organization that you labeled “the IBF”? Who knows this might be another story even better than where is “the IBF” located. Maybe my boss knew I would stumble across such vitriolic conversation and apparent bitterness by those vigorously opposed to “the IBF.” It would not be the first time he gave me an assignment that turned out that way. I really feel compelled to ask, knowing that maybe I will receive even more bitter vulgarity, do you as an individual or perhaps some group you represent feel somehow threatened by “the IBF.” If so how? Now this might really be the story and I readily admit that this as something when I began this assignment did not see coming. This right now would be some new information for me to consider in putting either this article or another one together. If you feel you need to use vulgarity be forewarned that it could be used as a direct quote. I do have some sense of integrity and I will only use exactly what you say in my direct quotes.

Anyway, I am getting some other sources which are vastly more helpful about this subject. I will reference you and “smartass” in my piece. Of course, it will be up to my editor if he wants to include it but just as a warning he still thinks John Mitchell’s reference to a certain part of Katherine Graham’s anatomy funny back in Watergate days and he has said if he was Ben Bradley he would have published exactly as the Attorney General said.

If you do come across anything constructive, please pass it along.

R. W. Fry

Before I had a chance to reply to that he wrote again:

Thanks for your replies. I am getting the information I needed from other sources.

I will submit my article by Thursday. I will include your comments including your vulgarities. My editor will decide what to include.

You will be lumped together with those who for whatever reason decided not to identify ” the IFB.” It does remind me of the old bogeyman presentation. But all I am doing in the article is reporting what was said and what was not and how it was said or not said. Others might have been more civil but perhaps that is what your regular readers expect from you.

Back when I covered hearings in court, it as so boring to hear the refrain and objection of lawyers as they time and time again said, Asked and answered. In this case it was asked and not answered. That is certainly your right as it is mine to report it exactly that way.

It has been interesting corresponding with you. I really did not expect the vulgarities in this situation but again that is your right. Who thought a religious article would have my editor dealing with these kinds of statements.

I had to chuckle when you accused me of mocking you. Obviously, you have not been taken to task much before. We have a columnist at our Journal who would have absolutely roasted you over this kind of misuse of the English language. I know that because he barbecues me regularly and he likes me, at least I think he does.

And I chuckled more when you accused my mind of being weak while you reached into the gutter to express yourself. As I said, it has been interesting, not illuminating but interesting. I have learned that you are not representative of those who have this boogeyman concept of the invisible “IFB.” You are colorful, I will give you that. You sure gave me some good quotes for my piece.

I am really surprised at the responses I have received. I think I have received something that I will be able to use from nearly each response. None as “colorful” as yours. I do appreciate a few of your associates who did admit that there is no such entity as “the IFB.” Not as colorful as you, but at the last they were candid.

I suppose I am in for some more vulgarities. I was taught long ago not to be surprised at what those somehow threatened might say but never let that discourage you in your pursuit of getting the story.

Again, thanks, for the colorful quotes and any others you may wish to furnish.

R. W. Fry


My final reply:

Ah, I see now, this was all just a ruse to bait me. Well, fool me once… Sorry, but I don’t engage with manipulators and passive/aggressive communicators. If you want to learn about the IFB than please read my website, it will answer all the questions you have. I’m not going to do your research for you. Please refer to my previous email for information about the organizations you are requesting information about.

You’re welcome to share information regarding our conversation and my website. I welcome the publicity. Just know that if it’s slanderous you will be hearing from my attorney. Also, in case you haven’t noticed, I have a popular blog also so our conversation can go on there too to help set the record straight (a Baptist pastor engaging in deceptive manipulation – thanks for being a shining example of what I speak out against on my website).

I have news for you, you’re not the first Baptist pastor to contact me. I know when I’m being harassed. Unless you want to engage in a healthy, RESPECTFUL discussion or have questions about specific information I have posted on the site, please don’t contact me again.

Steve


I’m free from the IFB prison so I’m not holding a grudge. I refuse to let it get to me. I’m just glad I have a platform to speak out against these idiots. I just want everyone to know what kind of dangers lurk inside these churches. Get away people! As fast and as far away as you can! Don’t spend another minute in an oppressive, abusive, cultish and manipulative church like this. These are modern day Pharisees and they have no place in Christianity or in our lives. If you are considering attending Bible Baptist Church in Plattsburgh, NY please reconsider.

1 Comment

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  1. I am surprised he didn’t use the title of “Doctor” or demand to be referred as such even though it is honorary. That seems to be a common IFB thing, as they love those titles with many in the upper echelon of the movement holding honorary doctorates. This interaction is unfortunately not uncommon, as I have encountered many IFB “pastors” (I use that term loosely) that enjoy playing such games. They’re experts at manipulation, blame-switch, etc. They must teach a course in that in the various IFB seminaries.

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