Independent Fundamental Baptist

Below you will find stories of those who are brave enough to share their experiences with the public. If you have a story to tell and would like to have it posted on this site please Click Here.

haihee writes: hi there i am also from an IFB church here and i am also leaving because of the false teaching of tithing. Your other comments like separatation, KJB, i am not so sure you are right, for you might be a disgruntled IFB member, looking from a biased point of view. Anyway, hi.

Caleb writes: Hello. I first of all want to thank your for spreading the True Gospel of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I know the Independent Fundamental Baptist church is SO very false. On top of the things you have said they also do these things: Door to door witnessing, No women preachers, women have to wear dresses, and All sorts of non-biblical things! It is a CULT! I have got some neighbors that go to one of these, how to i begin to share this with them? Thanks! God Bless You! In Christ, Caleb

Jim writes: Last Sunday 2/28/2010 my wife to be effective 06/05/2010 attended this Church Potomac Highland Baptist Church after the services we ask the Minister if he would marry us in June and allow us to have the wedding there at the church. He Dr Lloyd E Heatwole. Ask if either of us was divorced I admitted that i was. He said in a nasty tone of Voice “NO” to both questions then proceeded to try to expalin why. he said it was his understanding that it was against Gods Law for divorced people to remarry. He did say we were welcome to attend the Church but we had to marry elsewhere. He did also say that we could attend and become members after we were married. So is he right or is he wrong. It is a IFB Church that you talk about.

Beverly writes: I am wondering if you have an specific information about the Independent Baptist Church in Cassville, MO. Am very concerned for my sister and her children. I am sincerely worried for her health and well-being. She no longer seems to have a “self” … I have felt for some time that her “church” was really a cult. How might I be able to assist her… she is unreachable and does not care for her physical or emotional health

John writes: Dear Sir, I just wanted to thank you for your site. It has been a help to me today. My wife and I recently left a very abusive IFB church in Atlanta, GA. I can identify with much of what has been entered on this site. If I could be so bold I would like to suggest something that I believe needs to be addressed in IFB churches more. That is the issue of sexual abuse of minors. We condemn the Catholics for shunting priests across the country to escape charges and then do the exact same thing. It seems that the lack of any hierarchy in the IFB movement is partially responsible for this. Each church is the individual pastor’s little fiefdom. I only suggest this since you have experience dealing with mental health issues. I am sure you have had to deal with people suffering because of sexual abuse. This was the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for us in leaving the IFB. My wife finally got up the courage to go to our pastor about the man who molested her repeatedly. The man was a prominent church member there. He was a missionary “sent out” by the church. Needless to say, we were the ones in the wrong, “questioning authority” “ignoring Godly counsel” etc. The man had to get up in front of the church and “apologize” for unspecified acts that “God had already forgiven him for”. Many people in the church were horrified to find out what had happened and that they had been lied to by their pastor. I am not sorry to say that I am happy that the man who raped my wife (and other little girls) when she was a child is now sitting in prison awaiting trial. Since then, several more women have come forward about him. Unfortunately, the pastor wanted to sweep this under the rug and hide it. Some direct quotes from him “No need for this to get out” “We need to keep this quiet” etc. We have been accused of “damaging the cause of Christ”. I fail to understand how denouncing a pedophile harms Christ’s image. What has been hardest for me is to see the effect this has had on my wife. She has been diagnosed with PTSD and has strong negative reactions to church and the Bible because that is what was used to attack her. I am sorry to turn this email into a rant. Especially since we do not know each other. It is just that I have read most of what you have posted on your site and it struck a chord with me. I do appreciate the time and trouble that this site must cause you. John Buckner P.S. I read the disclaimer and I would like to ask that you not post any of this on your site due to the sensitive nature of the information. The molestor is due to go to trial soon and we have been warned about posting things on the internet, etc. I would love for that man to be breaking rocks for 25 years and would hate to mess it up. Thank you.

Luke writes: Thanks for this site. I’ve recently left an IFB church. I was saved about 9 years ago, and about 6 years ago I joined an IFB church. Now, I am experiencing much of what you have – doubts about salvation, fearing God because I have sinned and am out of fellowship. I can’t even read some verses in the Bible because I heard them preached so much at me as warnings. I also live in New Zealand so it’s not just America that has this problem (although, my ex pastor is from Hyles Anderson college). I think the major catalyst for me was reading some books on grace – Miles Stanford “The Green Letters” and I am currently reading Steve McVey’s “Grace Walk”. But even reading them, I still find that old baptist in me being cynical and thinking that they are “liberals” (that was a favourite word in the IFB church – all other christians were liberal for listening to their rock music etc). There are some things I still believe (KJB only for example), but most of them are things I came into the IFB with (in fact, I think I joined the IFB because of their stand of the KJB.. shame they don’t actually read it.. they get all their teaching from colleges and men). God bless I will look around the site

Patrick writes: Brother. I would like to thank you for your web site. I spent over 10 years in IFBM and experienced many of the things you describe. I came out of the wilderness one day while the new pope of Fundamental Baptist was preaching (Paul Chappell) He was railing on some issue probably attacking everybody‚s spirituality I asked myself is this the way Jesus would be? Then I looked at my two young kids and I said “I don‚t want them becoming like these people” I currently teach and preach a home church for all those wounded by the Beasts of the Field Ezekiel 34:1-10. I am utilizing your website to help in this endeavor. I wish you God’s blessing and Thank Patrick

B W writes: I am a young, normal, married guy who within the last year found my relationship with God. I found it through a Baptist Church which a good friend introduced me to. At that time I was an exCatholic Athiest. Then I made a huge spiritual leap, and it changed my life. Thankfully God used the church to save me, but now I need some advice about the church.. I have been part of a FIBC for a few months now. I have learned alot there and am beginning to get into a bus ministry thing(talked into it). But like you I cannot help but notice some things That I absolutely need in a church, are missing. Also there a few things that I am having increasing harder time ignoring.

I’ll list them:
1.The absolute need to be separate hurts any idea of community outreach and caring for others(which I want to be part of)
2. I fall asleep reading KJV and am a closet ESV reader.
3. I don’t hate other people for being gay or catholic.
4. My tithes are being used to support a pastor and his family…I would teach, study, and pray with ANYone for free Anytime…When did this become a career? (Tithing is a not so private thing)
5. Our church is small but has several unused buildings that I can’t help but cry thinking of homeless people freezing outside. We own 2 churches (1 unused), camp, and a school (unused)
6. Church is held at 11am and 6 pm so that the entire day is messed up (I’m not saying I don’t want to worship God, but we aren’t gaining points for hours put in to hear someone preach are we?)
7. There is no bible study/discussion, just extra mini preaching services.
8. I really don’t think all black people are hamites and cursed by God.
9. I like contemporary music AND hymns, but we only get hymns
10. they believe Soulwinning (via door knocking) trumps Soulwinning (via serving others)

So I’m in this Church. My family is Roman Catholic. My wife and daughter don’t go with me, but are not against me going there. So what keeps me going to this place that I know is in some ways hindering my walk with Christ? The people there. I have become great friends with some of the people in the church. I left once to try other churches and was kinda talked into coming back to give it another try. Now I am absolutely certain that this church is just another legalistic institution that promotes holding others to the standards of the law. I want to serve God and I want to be Christ like. But How can I leave people who will be hurt by my leaving? I have tried showing different points of view, but if it doesn’t fit in with their view its evil. I don’t want to sound like a pushover, but I generally like making people happy. If I leave I would feel like i’m wounding these people. So what I want from you is pretty much some suggestions.

Luis writes: Great site! Already started recommending this site from my own blog that chronicles our abuse: http://independentfundamentalbaptistmess.blogspot.com/ This is our story/struggle. I don’t want to reveal the preacher just yet since he is my father-in-law. Feel free to share this, it may help other missionary kids that don’t have much options in life.

Al writes: I have tried to figure out why IFB are the way they are, if they have always been this way, or is this something that has evolved. Probably a mixture. It’s my understanding after 17yrs and 4 churches that most IFB’s came from Southern Baptists or at least they broke from a convention somewhere. I also believe that what drove these folks to separate was probably a sincere desire to live for God the best they knew how. As with any sysytem over time it tends to degrade. (Law of thermodyamics.) Conventions, Southern Baptist etc became to liberal or taught some error so Pastors chose to leave a couple generations ago. They started IBC’s. What I think has happened is similar to the days of the Pharasees in Jesus day. The Temple had become corrupt from the influence of sinful men and they turned the sacrifices and the Law into something mechanical that you would just do and then you would be right with God. The sacrifices of animals were supposed to make you feel sorrow for sin and repent. IFB churches took a desire to be right with God and over time it has evolved into the same Pharasiacal process to be right with God. Wear this, read only this, attend 3 to thrive, etc.. and you will be right with God. It’s like warmed over Catholicism. They left the Holy Spirit, if they ever had Him, and have chosen to follow men. Pastors will answer to God for the sad condition of churches. Most church members tend to desire to follow the Pastor. It is my conclusion what we see today is a result of dismal leadership in churches. God help us.

Elizabeth writes: Hello, It is encouraging for me to have found your website. I left an IB church recently and with a group of about ten former IBs we started a Sunday bible study/fellowship and it is just such a blessing to be away from the legalism and politics of it all. There is true freedom in the gospel. How amazing the God we serve is. Lizzie M from Australia.

April writes: Saved by Grace….BUT… I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… my infant baptism & confirming of my belief as an early teen wasn’t good enough…I’d have to be “immersed” to really please God… I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… after being fully immersed in baptism by a christian preacher, that wasn’t good enough either, it wasn’t “valid”….. I needed to be baptised yet again, by one of *their* properly ordained preachers…( I listened to tapes from a tape ministry of that “church” that I got in college. I drove to another state to be baptised!! hard to believe, but it’s true)

I was told I was saved by grace….BUT… since being baptised by *the properly ordained preacher*, I was now a member of *their church* = the *true church*, which had the true faith & practice. Evidentally, no other churches did???? I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… to not go to any other churches…just listen to the sermon tapes & get in for “church” as much as possible. I was living in one state & my LOCAL church was in ANOTHER STATE????? How was that church MY local church?

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… since there were no *true churches* in the state I lived…..to be pleasing to God it may be that I needed to “forsake lands & family for the kingdom = their local church….” In the bible, I only read where the Ethiopian eunuch went his way rejoicing, I never read anywhere where he was told…”well, if a true church doesn’t pan out back in Ethiopia, you need to consider moving your life…guilt trip…guilt trip…guilt trip….” Anyhow, isn’t the church a spiritual house??? Doesn’t Christ built it?

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT…. that if we weren’t concerned about relocating for the *true church*…that “we probably didn’t love the church enough to even be members” …quite a judgmental remark, I wonder if that preacher says the same things to his “non-resident” members today as he did to us back then? Lots of pressure was put on us to move our lives to be in the “perfect will of God”.

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT….God wanted me closer to the *true church*…& us moving our lives 2 states from the only home we’d ever known, “would make life easier for *pastor*” ( he said that on more than 1 occasion!!)…what about the burden put on us? I guess making our lives easier didn’t matter to him…? I was told I was saved by grace…BUT…. God may expect you to walk away from a career, a loving family & friends….didn’t I love God enough to make these sacrifices for HIM?? Yet, I thought that all God requires is “to do justly, love mercy & walk humbly w/ thy God”?? Micah 6:8 LOVE is the greatest commandment & Jesus fulfilled the law…so why was the LAW put back on me by this “Sovereign Grace” preacher???? Calvinism is NOT the TRUTH….so if a person loves Jesus & his fellow man, they are following the TRUTH.

Also, DOCTRINE is SECOND to the FRUITS, WORKS & EXAMPLES. Sorry, but being a good *preacher* & yelling & screaming & ranting & being persuasive with mans’ wisdom & speeches & putting fear into people, & manipulating & all of the logic in the world…this is not what Jesus is about. This is not the truth. **I informed pastor that I considered Arminian christians brothers & sisters in Christ (the group we were in is Calvinistic)….the pastor glared at me & told me “so….you have changed…” You bet I had!! I no longer believed in this “prove yourself & we’re doing church better than everyone else..” religion, that claimed salvation by grace! It was hypocrisy & selfrighteousness to the core.

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT…. there were no other churches to go to except *their* churches (the few that there are). Those others false churches, didn’t use the right bible version, celebrated those pagan holidays, didn’t baptise properly, didn’t wash feet, used musical instruments, weren’t from the true lineage & were not pleasing to God in many other ways including being “lukewarm” in addition to other reasons…… OK…..wow…you just limited in my mind any other group except yours. Gee don’t abusers do that???…”you can’t go to anyone else???..you can’t make it without me…” In sermons it was implied & oftentimes stated that “you can’t go to any other churches & believe that God will be pleased with you. To be right with God, you should join us, those other groups aren’t righteous”. The pastor would mention some evil befalling a person who left & imply or sometimes out & out state that evil befell that individual because they left the “true church.”

If you hint at leaving, pastor will scream from the pulpit that “anyone is free to leave this church!!” …but then the “man of God” (cough cough gag gag) will imply how you will not make it, & God might be so pissed that he would kill you & the “brethren” will shun you. We were told if we left that the brethren would “wash their hands of us” This sounds more like a gang than a church! I was told I was saved by grace…BUT.. if a *true church* didn’t materialize in our homestate, “that we would do well to consider relocating our lives to live by the *true church*” Of course I don’t recall pastor teaching on..”the kingdom of God comes not with observation, neither shall they say, Lo here! or Lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you”? Luke 17:20-21 what about we are members of a “SPIRITUAL HOUSE” what about “where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there am I …?” Rarely if ever heard these verses preached on..

I was told I was saved by grace.. BUT….because of the pastor manipulating bible verses & the pressure & guilt we moved our lives from the only home we’d ever known, left our family to live close by & be a real part of that supposed “spiritual family”. Yet…the majority of folks there didn’t go out of there way to befriend us or make time for us. This was very disconcerting…told pastor about our struggles, missing our family, feeling like outsiders…then….. I was told I was saved by grace..BUT.. in a sermon was blasted at us that “the church didn’t owe anyone friendship!!!”…..(never mind that we moved our lives for it & were told *they* were now our “spiritual family”….) talk about a bait & friggen switch!! We were told to move our LIVES, walked away from loving family, friends, career, opportunities, for our “spiritual family”…..gee…thanks, wish I would have known that “the church doesn’t owe anyone friendship” before we friggen moved here for that bible-cult! (mind you the pastor & members were incredibly solicitous to us when we lived out of state.. they love bombed us …BUT..once we moved here….well, their duty was done. They achieved their goal. We were now completely seperated from our friends & family…my husband starting his career, his ability to earn a living & support his family, from SCRATCH. Don’t abusers try to seperate you from your support system?

Our lives were a blip on a screen to them…they had no idea what it was like to MOVE YOUR LIFE for a group of people who were just too busy w/ their lives to make time for you. The stranger in a strange land is on their own…. I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… pastor informed me that if I was unhappy being in the “true church” & leave, they, (meaning the people in the *true church*) would “wash their hands of us”.(meaning cut us off from “fellowship”/friendship)……quite a frightening proposition considering we relocated to this state for that *church/cult* & the majority of people we knew were in the *church*! Obviously this was meant to scare us, manipulate us into not leaving the “true church”…..as if anyone can? Isn’t Christ the builder of his TRUE church? I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… that if we wanted to move back to our homestate, that was something the *pastor* could not condone. You see, we didn’t feel love or much true friendship after moving here for the “true church”.

We wanted to move back to our home state, where we have extended family, friends & connections.(we were even willing to stay nonresident members of that church/cult!)..doesn’t God say “I will be with you whithersoever thou goest?” Would God leave us because of where we choose to LIVE?? Pastor coldly informed us that he couldn’t be there for us if/when God would choose to judge us for moving back to our home state! We were in disbelief…. I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… “the pastor is to rule the church as the minister of Christ…hence the church is governed by Christ through His written word being administered by His appointed overseer, the PASTOR”…..that’s just fancy wording for THE PASTOR RUNS THE CHURCH..end of story. what about the Holy spirit leading us & the priesthood of believers? Who is the pastor accountable to in this setup? ………& not some lame answer of the pastor is accountable to God & the scriptures….I’m talking being accountable in the flesh to people who can question him without fear of the bullypulpit…..& other underhanded tactics. REAL ACCOUNTABILITY to REAL PEOPLE. There were NO checks & balances for the pastor. Another question….who preaches to the preacher? Funny how he would brag that he, like Paul was “chief of sinners”..well, if you’re a sinner like us lowly sheep, how come you have absolutely no checks & balances set up to make sure that you don’t become corrupted with power & narcissism?

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… that to leave that *church* would be leaving the kingdom of God & the body of Christ. In addition, it was implied that God might kill us for the decision to walk away from that group. We wanted to leave what we believed was wrong for us, not healthy, not right. We no longer agreed w/ the half anymore, yet we were judged for following our own God given conscience. No, that is not FREE to leave. I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… was told that those holidays were pagan & I shouldn’t celebrate them…never mind that when I celebrated Christmas I NEVER worshipped the tree! What about not judging a person “with respect to an holy day….?” I guess forbidding holidays is a good way to keep folks alienated from their families who choose to celebrate the holidays. We were not allowed to be “convinced in our own minds “. Pastor made up his mind & convinced us of HIS mind. I was told

I was saved by grace…BUT… that if I was going to miss church, I ‘d need to call *pastor* I didn’t realize that my spirituality or relationship with God was tied into “church attendance”. It didn’t dawn on me that I’d have to be spoon fed from the same *pastor* my whole life. What about the holy spirit teaching a person??…..did Jesus say I’d need some MAN = pastor to be my shepherd for the rest of my days???? I have only one shepherd…the LORD IS MY SHEPHERD…not some “pastor”.

I was told I was saved by grace…BUT… that if the *church* felt like a prison, not to worry, because Paul said “he was a prisoner for Christ….” What a twisting of scriptures! Didn’t Jesus come to set the captives FREE? I was told I was saved by grace…BUT….but upon willingly leaving the group, we were then punished by being “excommunicated – church disciplined” & judged. Pastor assassinated our characters from his bully pulpit. I was told I was saved by grace…BUT…. when we finally got the courage & left the abusive group, we were told to “watch out for God’s fiery judgment & indignation to devour the adversary….” US…being the “adversary”. We didn’t walk away from CHRIST & we certainly are not God’s adversary’s…but evidentally that is the conclusion the pastor had of us, for WHAT??? following our conscience & being convinced in our own minds that staying in that *church-cult* was not good for us. For disagreeing w/ pastor & his man-made doctrines? Pastor was judge, jury & executioner of us & our characters.

I was told I was saved by grace.. BUT… upon exiting abusive cult church, people who knew me for some 19 years have turned their backs on us….we are shunned. We gave up so much of our lives for that group….cruelty & betrayal describes what we experienced, in addition to other adjectives I wont bring up right now. I was told I was saved by grace….BUT….in the pulpit *pastor* screamed “anyone is FREE TO LEAVE this church!!!!” Free to leave would be a hug & a blessing, not a curse in an “excommunication/exclusion letter”, public rebuking, character assassination & made to feel that you are satan’s minions because you wouldn’t bow down to an Independent-Primitive-Baptist-Calvinist- religious dictator. People on the outside don’t get the whole picture.

I will believe Xpastor has an ounce of integrity when he has our excommunication sermon & the sermons of every person ever “church disciplined”, UNEDITED & available for purchase or download to the general public so that people can REALLY see what goes on & they can see what “Free to leave” is, according to Xpastor. I was told I was saved by grace….BUT…. was put under the law in ways that the Catholic church I grew up in NEVER DARED. I had burdens heaped on me HEAVY to be borne that the Catholic church would never have imagined to put on me in this life. Yet this was GRACE RELIGION…..I dont think so! What about what JESUS SAYS RELIGION IS???? “visiting the fatherless & widows…is religion pure & undefiled”.

The religion I was in for some 19 years had NO FREEDOM, it was BONDAGE. It certainly wasn’t Jesus’ religion. All of what I was told WASN’T ABOUT GOD OR HIS GRACE it was about a RELIGIOUS SYSTEM & putting my family & I in BONDAGE. It’s all done under the guise of TRUE RELIGION where supposedly God’s grace is taught. People BE CAREFUL, these supposed “Sovereign Grace” preachers will talk, talk, talk about God’s GRACE, but be careful because we were made to jump through hoops that the apostles never even dared to make believers jump through!! written By April If anyone is told these things I was told PLEASE PLEASE BEWARE PLEASE THINK TWICE BEFORE THROWING AWAY YOUR GOD GIVEN FREEDOM! You will be living under a religious dictatorship. God guide you!

An anonymous reader writes: I read your website and can tell you from first hand experience how much I agree with you. My mom got involved in an IFB church when I was a child. After a short time, she began telling my dad (who was and is a conservative and respectable Lutheran) that he was a heathen and leading his children astray. He saw the danger of what was happening and tried to keep me away from her church. This leaded to increased violence.

As a child, I was confused. I was forced to start wearing ankle length skirts to school and was no longer allowed to socialize outside of school because my classmates were unsaved. Still, I tried hard to please my mom and the church, including going to Hyles-Anderson College when I graduated. I have completed four years at HAC and have one semester left.

While there, I have seen much that I disagree with. The academics (which were easier than the work I did in high school) were often forsaken and ‘big days’, ‘mission conferences’, and church projects took its place. I stayed anyway, partly due to the tremendous pressure from my family. I can say though that I’m looking forward to leaving. Upon graduation, I will leave for Air Force Basic Training and become and Air Traffic Controller.

I consider myself very lucky because I know that I only have a few more months of the IFB church. I do worry about my brothers. They see constant arguing and even physical fighting between their parents because of differences in beliefs. At 13 and 15, they are constantly told they are rebellious and hateful. They have been the subject of many a sermon. In reality, they are normal teenage boys who are seeing the truth and deciding for themselves what they believe. I just hope they don’t suffer long-term consequences because of the way they were brought up.

I’m in no way saying I’m turning my back on religion as a whole. I love God and believe in Him strongly. I read the Bible (I actually like the KJV because of its poetic language though I’m not opposed to other versions) and pray. I want to lead a clean life. But it hurts to be seen as a ‘heathen’ and a ‘homewrecker’ because of my decisions for the future. Thank you for showing the truth in this group. I hope many are helped by it.

Michelle writes:  My husband and I have been in the independent fundamental baptist church since 1991. I was raised charismatic. He got saved 2 months before I met him. I was attracted to the fact that there was an absolute answer. My first IFB pastor was a strong, charismatic, funny person that everyone wanted to please. Like I said, I was attracted to that. I was 20 years old and searching for answers. Thankfully, my mom taught me one very important principle- God is always right, man can be wrong. And yes, this was from a Charismatic Christian.

Our first pastor ended up falling big time. He was involved in immoral behaviour for years. Manipulating women sexually. Stealing money. He finally got caught. Interestingly, it was after he sent nasty letters to us bad members who were either not tithing a full 10% or not tithing at all. We tithed about 5%, but I wondered how he knew it wasn’t 10%? Well, I felt so guilty, and so horrible. We made sure we tithed the full 10% after that! But, 3 short months later, God brought the hammer of justice down and he had to go to prison.

Our next church was a sending church from that one. Actually, they changed to a non-denominational church after about 5 years. We were burned, however, because my husband was not allowed to step-down as a worship “pastor.” We did not like having the “pastor” title. It wasn’t us. Originally, he was just helping with the music. Soon, he was attending the church’s school and was ordained, and I hated it. He would not let us step down….until a better, more cool guy came in- then he decided God didn’t want him to do that anymore. I was glad he didn’t have to anymore, but I realized they cared more about their church than their people. We were having financial problems, marraige problems, child problems and felt like hypocrites when reminded of the “leadership character traits” required in the Bible. Those weren’t good reasons to step down. Not being “cool” enough was a good reason. At this point, however, they were no longer IFB- they were not Rick Warrenites.

Then, accidentally, we happened upon a REALLY IFB church. Women in dresses and coulottes, music standards, you name it. I just wanted to fit in somewhere, and the rules seemed safe. I could see their points, but couldn’t be completely convinced. We went here for 7 years. I started questioning things and secretly considering differen ways of doing things…but then major family problems began! I thought it was my sinful fault. I considered disobeying them, and God was judging me. So, I was back to making sure I was in my place all 3 services, tithing my full 10%, taking my child back out of the evil Christian school and even having the pastor’s wife homeschool him because I couldn’t handle it- too much rebellion, etc. After a year of that, our relationships became better, and we questioned things together.

We didn’t like seeing how one family alienated their son. This family was the “effective, successful family.” However, I was not fooled. I heard their children talk. They followed all the rules, wore the suit and tie, sat straight, tall and quiet in church, sang in the choir, played the piano and their instruments- classical and hymns only. But, one freaked just before he left. They did those things because they would get spanked if they didn’t. None of it was in their hearts.

So, we reevaluated those things. We gave our son an iPod. We allowed CCM. We didn’t like the CCM he liked, but we didn’t have a SOLID Biblical reason. We say, it’s not our favorite, but we aren’t banning it. His old music about rape and murder, we have a solid Biblical answer for- so that is “No.” What kid wants an iPod with classical music? We put him back in Christian school- back with the “bad” influences. Even though the “good” family’s 2 sons were the ones who introduced our son to not just music, but music about rape and murder. Who introduced our son to R-rated movies.

We were treated like those bad people who “lowered their standards.” We wavered because our kid didn’t like the rules. We didn’t “stick to our guns.” We questioned God, and have turned our backs on His ways. We even sat through sermons we knew were directed towards us. (It is a small church.) If the pastor sees things he doesn’t like, he topically preaches on it Sunday nights, and everyone usually knows who it is for! Mostly, it is a manipulative way to make people afraid of questioning his judgment.

It will always be a small church. People who end up their who do not know Jesus Christ leave. Their tight pants are criticized, and they can’t listen to their music. If they are exercise instructors, they no longer have a job God can use because of dress and music! I could go on. I see people who do not know Jesus Christ leave, and I see other fundamentals come in. Their last pastor did something bad, so they find another fundamental pastor. Those are the people who attend.

Birth control is bad. Delivering babies and using medication is bad. The only way to raise children is on a strict schedule. If you don’t schedule your children, you are outside of God’s will. God is a God of order, and you have failed. You have to go to all services. If something bad happens it is either sin, unfaithful to church services or you are not tithing. You can not dance. You can not clap. Ever. If music makes you move more than your big toe or little fingers, it is sensual…you are sensual.

My husband is an excellent jazz musician. He has not played his horn in years. They only want a certain kind of music. But, you can’t find the music to play anywhere, so all an accomplished musician can do is play boring music out of a hymnal. Why play at all!

We left, my husband is playing his saxophone all the time. My son has picked up the guitar. His is a GIFTED musician who quit playing the piano because he didn’t want to be forced to play classical music and hymns only. There is music in my home again. Sunday I heard that God loves me regardless of my performance. I left getting a glimpse of the fact that I am accepted instead of being this wavering, inneffective, no- good parent! My son laughs with us- when 2 years ago he was punching holes in the wall and cursing at us!

He still wanted to go to camp with them. I sure wouldn’t have wanted to. They were going to “pray” about it. He had to interview with the pastor so they could get his heart on the issue. Forget it!

We were expected to keep our children 3 years and above in a LONG adult service. LONG! If they didn’t behave, they were to be spanked. We used to do that with our 2nd born. That was inneffective and wore us out. We started to with our 3rd born. How stupid. That makes them hate church. We quit spanking them for that. That was not sinful behaviour! They were bored out of their minds. So was I! So, we just quit going in the evenings when they were too tired to sit for 2+ hours and listen to things they didn’t understand.

I’m thankful for my mom’s upbringing. I learned that relationships come first. God is not a duty- He is a “get too.” I was also taught that the Bible is always right, people can be wrong. If it weren’t for her, I probably would have shyed away from the Bible altogether, too. Hopefully my son won’t.

Well, that’s my long story.

Christine writes:  

I grew up in an Independent, Fundamental KJV only, legalistic Baptist church as well…unfortunately spent about 16 years there or so….. I was so turned off to it by the time I was 18, that I stayed out of church until I was about 28 or so, due to my ignorance, thinking that all churches were like this. I did not want to go to hell, but in my opinion, going to this chruch was hell, so I refused to go back.

Then when I was 27 or so, i was curious and thirsty for God, and so I started going to a southern Baptist church which turned me back on because they were not legalistic and taught me about a true relationship with God and that it is what’s in the heart that matters, not all the ridiculous man-made rules and “religiousness” that goes on in the Fundamental type churches. I have now attended a Full-Gospel Pentecostal church that is not legalistic, for over nine years and could never go back to the rigid, black and white way of seeing things….. fundamentalism. It is my strong personal opinion, that any time you have “Fundamentalism” in a “religion” it is going to be extreme and out of balance… the same goes with the fundamentalists in the mormom church, muslims, etc…. extremely out of balance in the worst sense.

Though I agree not all of these Fundamental churches are manipulating, mean-spirited, controlling modern-day Pharisees, like most of them (99.9%) are, they for the most part are, they do an EXTREME amount of damage to the “church” as a whole, as they misrepresent what the Gospel is truly about and get people side-tracked onto rules, so much that they are so busy trying to please the leadership of the church with the length of their skirt being just right, or whether or not they’re wearing panty hose, or the men’s hair is the right length, that their whole way of thinking eventually becomes consumed with pleasing the leadership,and not God.

They do this all in the name of what they interpret to be “God’s true old-fashioned way”…. thus they stick to the KJV of the bible, as they believe old-fashioned is the best and most right way to be a “Christian”. What they fail to recogize in their narrow-minded thinking, is that the KJV is a version of the bible as well, and that there is nothing extra holy about a version that was made in the year of 1611. 99% of them would argue til they turn blue in the face, and sometimes even purple and black, that any other version is demonic and from the pits of hell. this is also a point where they go wrong, as we bring no glory to God whathsoever arguing about these matters, or anything that has to do with God… I have saw and heard of a lot of arguments in the Fundamental type churches, where people get so arrogant and hot-headed, trying to prove their point, as it is all based on a mentality of “we the KJV only people know best!!”… I honestly get very lost in this old version, as it is in Old English, and after going the spiritual abuse that I went thru growing up, I honestly never reach for a KJV bible. They believe it is the spirit of the Antichrist. They find soemthing wrong with anything and everything in Christendom that is not part of how they see things, or any way that is modern versus old-fashioned. God is not impressed with tradition or old-fashionedness, this is not God’s heart. God’s heart is love, mercy, and grace, and helping us find our way home to him one day, through that same grace and mercy, and love….

I have also discovered over the years that denominationalism is idolatry, and 99% of these fundamental Baptist believers are very haughty and prideful in the fact that they are part of this “elect” group of believers, and very proud of being a “Baptist” and you will be a whole lot more likely to hear them say this than to humbly say they are proud to be a “Christian” or “Child of God”…. They do not like to be around people who are not part of their elect group either, which is also not scriptural. I have a famly member who is a preacher at a Fundamnetal Baptist church and he finds something wrong with being on My space or Facebook, as it is “of the world”. Again, what they seem to fail to recognize, is that God can use outlets like this as a witness and for reaching people, and that it is not part of the “world” to let your let shine in that same dark world.

If wearing dresses makes me look holy, and my heart is dark as hell being judugemental and religious spirited, what would be the point? I know of a young lady who went to the same church I did while growing up. She told me the story where she raised 200.00 to attend a church camp, she did fundraisers, worked real hard to raise the money, and when it came time to go on the trip to the youth camp, her youth leader (who was also my youth leader) looked her straight up and down with a very demeaning and judgemental, better than thou mannerism, and said “You are not going to the youth camp, you are not holy.” He viewed her as “not holy” because she was wearing casual khaki pants, that were very decent and loose, and she did not find the holy code of wearing a dress, so he forbid her to go. The last I heard, she attends no church as she has been so hurt by this same church. She also was molested by the bus driver who took her to church, at this same very church in this town. He was also her God-father. I have heard story after story of people being hurt beyond measure by this church’s control, spiritual abuse, mind-control, judgementalism, rudeness, and hatred, all in the name of “winning souls to the Lord”.

I find personally that the whole wearing dresses all the time, sets up a spirit of “better than thou entitlement” or a sense that they are part of, again, an elite group of Christians, who have it all right, and that no one else does. It all boils down to “self-righteousness” though they are seemingly blind to discerning this. They find something wrong with anything and everything from Christian music with drum beats in it, a Christian singer without the look of a Fundamental Baptist, anyone who does not read the KVJ version of the bible, anyone who has been divorced cannot and is forbidden to get married in their churches, they mock people speaking in tongues, which is in itself bordering blaspheming the Holy Ghost, which the Bible says is unpardonable. I would not even want to get close to taking the chance of doing that… btw, Tongues is very biblical, and may I remind everyone, respectfully, that God never changes. They use the argument to explain their disbelief, that the bible says that “Tongues shall cease”. The words right after that in that verse is “Knowledge shall cease”. Has knowledge ceased yet? No…. it will only cease, just like tongues, after we are in eternity, and it is no longer needed here on earth…. What they are unfortunately failing to recognize is the big picture… Tongues shall indeed cease, in eternity, when we as believers, no longer have the need to use this spiritual gift for edification to the spiritual body as a whole and personally. They would find, however, that the gift of tongues would help get their minds off of themselves and their rules, and onto a supernatural and loving God.

I know I have rambled a bit, however I am very passionate about awareness on legalism and spiritual abuse, as I know, first hand, the damage it can cause to one’s spiritual growth and how one views God. Just because a church is zealous about “saving” souls, does not mean they are scripturally on the mark. We can, without even knowing it, be zealous in a way that builds ourself up, and not the true Kingdom of God. Thanks for reading, and God bless