Independent Fundamental Baptist

This page contains interesting email messages I’ve received. It isn’t intended to make fun of anyone, well maybe just a little bit. I really just want to show people what kind of thinking is out there. The messages will be displayed unedited and just as I receive them (with the exception of editing for language). I don’t mind being attacked in such a ruthless manner, but I do find it sad. It hurts my heart that there is so much deceit and hatred out there among Christians.

Some of those who write to me have chosen to remain anonymous. I’m not really sure why they refuse to give their names and email addresses. I can only surmise that it is so they can just vent without worry about hearing back from me. My guess is that they wish to remain closed minded and refuse to see anything but their own ignorance. Others have shared their name and email address. I will post the names of those who share them with me. Anyway, I hope that, as you read this, it will give you a greater understanding of the urgent message of this site.

I will update this page as more messages like this come in so stay tuned.

From Anonymous:
NOT GOOD TINA WHAT HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED ANYONE NOT SAVED THAT IS LISTENING YOU HAVE JUST TURNED OFF FROM SALVATION IF THEY AREN’T SAVED YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THIS IF IT WASN’T FOR A FAITHFUL PASTOR i’D STILL BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC ON MY WAY TO HELL HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE YOU DAMAGED BY MAKING IT SOUND LIKE ALL IFB ARE EVIL YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT TRUE CONFESS THIS TERRIBLE TV SHOW YOU HAVE DONE MONEY IS NOT WORTH IT

From S Jarvis:
I am here to say that the independant fundamental baptist are not a cult by any means. I belong to an independant fundamental baptist church and it it full of bible preaching bible believing (link added by site Admin) christians. There are good and bad in more churchs than just the baptist but what happened was because of sex offenders that shouldn’t have been in the church and bad leaders not because they were baptist.

From Jim:
The surviving Scion Clan of Scotland has always nurtured a belief, based on the text of Apixa and God that he who hath followed the doctrine of Constantine and committed sin, based on the words of a book called the Bible, shall be publicly dismembered.

From Anonymous:
go to hell, this group is nuts, get real,what the hell are you thinking!

From Mrs. Demay:
I’m mortified at this website you’ve created and disgusted at the fact that you seem to be lumping all IFB churches into the same category. IFB is a denomination, however, each church is autonomous. As a very wicked, headstrong adult I started attending an IFB church (which I am proudly still a member of). The Lord used my pastor and this church as a tool to reach my cold heart and I got saved at the age of 31. I have NEVER been made to feel that the Lord is just waiting to crack down on me if I take a wrong step. The only God that has been preached in my church is a loving God who died for me, a sinner, who can do nothing to earn His love. I can not earn God’s love because He has given it freely. My church is a blessing to me, my husband and my kids and without it I’m just not sure how God would have reached us. I will defend the church because it is the bride of Christ. From your website I gather that it’s possible the one single church you attended had people in it who did things that were not encouraging to you as a child and young Christian. I’m sorry for that and know that the Lord God will hold accountable anyone He gives authority to. As a new Christian, I have noticed that people can also be very bitter and because of their bitterness and unforgiveness, Satan uses every negative event in their life (no matter how big or small) to continue to hold them captive and as long as bitterness and unforgiveness is held onto by the “victim” that person is oppressed by Satan to the point that they are used by him as a pawn to damage Jesus Christ, and if not him, at least his bride (the church). You are entitled to your opinions and statements, but for the record, I want you to know that not every church is the same. I know your defense is “I’m not saying all IFB churches are alike” but your website gives the impression that they are. What you’re doing (by lumping them all together) is wrong and it’s not biblical. After having attended a few different denominations of churches for 31 years of my life, my soul was finally saved in an IFB church. You should know as well as I do that there are very few churches in this world preaching the true gospel. There could be many souls just like mine who are looking for a good church to go to to hear the gospel and I pray that they do not come across your website because it was clearly designed to steer people away from the IFB church, possibly keeping them from hearing the true gospel. For that, just like those who you say were abusive to you, you will be held accountable.

From Eddie:
When the T.V. show ABC has to be your authority, you really taken a step backwards but it is froward.

I guess you would have been against stoning in the O.T.?
I guess you would have been against the laws of separation in the O.T.?
I guess you are against everything that is legal?

You reasoning don’t even have a rhyme to it. It is just a lost wondering in the wilderness. How many years will you stay there?

You want a church, with no pastor, no rules, no judgments, no rebuke, no instruction, no leadership.

You want a church, which is not new to the idea of “every man did that which is right in his own eyes”. Nothing new under the sun.

ABC – CBS — NBC — Foxnews are not my authorities on why some one spanked my butt when I was little. You poor little thing. I would love for you to post any comments from your parents on your life as a child.

I double dog dare you to let mom and pop write about you.

Folks not one Bible verse was quoted in his offensive out line of abuse.
Folks not one Bible verse is ever quoted just his opinions of how he feels he was wronged.
Folks this guy is not a spiritual leader, called man of God, nor ordained in the ministry. Just a bystander who draws in others who led the rebellious life and wants to cut all scriptures about punishments.

What a unbelievable mess this guy writes about.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

He is definitely in LOVE WITH HIMSELF!!

Since he made a blanket statement and judged ALL IFB churches – I will make just one direct statement that this dude is not all knowing and is just in love with himself. His writings demonstrate it completely!

From Eddie:
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

These are just two verses that deal with those who causes troubles. Poor fellow got his feelings hurt and not he rambles on as if the church is wrong for caring out the laws of God.

Doctrines are exact and are not left up to my feelings when the pastor rebukes me, oh, I’m sorry, you don’t have a pastor, you have a home study.

1Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

I guess you have taken the pen-knife to these parts of the Bible.

Oh well, nice try. Truth is Truth — folks any one who is NOT in church and trying to lead others against the church? Do you really have to have someone to explain that to you?

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

At different times there has always been the religious and lost who has persecuted the church and its structure. This guy is no different.

Don’t fall for his bitterness and anti-church stands.

From Eddie:
Thank you for visiting. This site is dedicated to exposing the Mind Control, Manipulation, Deception, Spiritual and Emotional Abuse, Heresy, Legalism (“Phariseeism”), and Authoritarianism behind the Independent Fundamental Baptist Denomination (IFB).

QUESTION: In one reply to a person, you said you only represent your experience at your church while growing up and not all the others, but your statement above does in fact state that you claim all are the same.

Saying all IFB churches are abusive and heretical is a very STRONG statement. I guess you have ALL KNOWLEDGE and sit with God. You’ve become worst than your teachers of the IFB. You throw a mean swing against God’s institutions and vent with such venom that you don’t even see how you are worst then what you stand against.

In another area of your website you say you only attend HOME Studies.

1. Who is the pastor or elder or Bishop? The Apostle Paul uses all three terms.
2. Who are the Decons/Elders?
3. Who baptizes the believers?
4. Who takes up the offerings?
5. What are the offerings used for?
6. How many missionaries does your HOME Study support?
7. How are you carrying out the great commission?

The more I read your replies the more enjoyment I receive in watching how you contradict yourself in various areas as you offer your humanist views of NOT GOING TO CHURCH.

Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

Act 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.

As Paul traveled, He ordained elders in every CHURCH. There is a new testament example of how God’s work is accomplished and it is never done outside the camp (O.T.) or outside the church (N.T.)

You really take the cake with your humanistic reasoning — you are as anti-Bible and Church as they come.

I really don’t expect these post to stay up, but I hope you really are as open as you claim.

From Eddie:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Under the laws, yes they were required. Under grace, the tithe is for our learning and a reference point. If they gave 10% under the blood of bulls and goats, what should we give under the blood of Christ?

Fancy churches, fancy pews, fancy song books… YES YES YES YES!

Hasn’t anyone every read what Solomon’s temple looked like? Have you not read what the covenant of the Ark was overlayed with? Churches today haven’t even gotten close to the magnificent of the temples of OLD. If nice costly churches are evil, well what will we do with SOlomon’s extravagant Temple?

Folks, this website is full of errors in thought and reasoning that offers no truth but just objection to everything that that has been the common in Church history.

Yes there are some churches out there with pastors who shouldn’t be pastoring — the 12 had Judas and the churches has their fair shares of Judas.

But the congregations have their fair share of those who withstood Moses, which was in the 1000?s a far great cry than the 0ne in twelve.

Watch what you say and remember how you say it. God takes great note in rebellious attitudes towards His Church and it’s elders. Jumping on any bandwagon for the sakes of jumping and complaining always has a way of biting back. Those murmuring saints in the O.T. learn that one the hard way. Just learn to LOOK and LIVE and lights will come on.

Get away from sites that just complain and rip the local church.

From Eddie:
Wow — I needed ONE reference for humanistic thinking and reasoning. I found it in you!

Not trying to be a joker but WOW, you bit the hook and ran off on every tangible lie of the Devil and offer no proof for truth, but just reasoning for being angry and backslidden.

I’m not even a Baptist, but see the flaws in all your reasoning.

You offer up the struggles you have with authority and that is the plain truth of the matter. The world is full of people like you who have gotten angry at commandments, and authorities and what it means to be in submission. Neighbors are full of angry Christians and no surprise since all think they have as much of the Spirit of God as God’s Elders, Pastors or Evangelist. If you know your Bible, one story should come to mind.

For now, be thankful for Grace and that you were not born in the O.T.

You are really really something. I enjoy reading for one reason and that is to show my flock what it means to be a humanist, to be a bitter Christian who never learned obedience.

Please keep your deception website up so others who know truth will have a reference point or maybe one day you will realize truth and at least have the wisdom to re-name it BaptistTruth so you could take a positive approach to winning the lost. Maybe you will even share with us what it means to be a GOOD Pastor and HOW God leads his chosen men in truth.

All those IFB folks that you so wickedly expose for getting the gospel out, building churches, sending missionaries,changing lives, etc. I wonder what you have DONE?

You mention something about being in the SBC, well I know hundreds of Pastors in those churches where you would not fit in either, so what’s the difference in SBC or IFB?

Any way, just a good read, don’t take time to respond.

1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Moses as well as Paul had members like you. God judges well and takes note. You are left around for one purpose, which for you, is not for God’s Glory, but just as others who forsook God — you are the bait for the devils hook to catch others who also reject truth for humanism.

Enjoy your self for now, but on the judgement day we will see where your doctrines stand!

Thanks for the good laugh — Eddie

From Fred:
I should have mentioned in my previous comment that Aleister Crowley’s books are by far the most popular brand of “occult flavored BS” fed to Satanists as actual occultism. Note that his “magnum opus” is Magic in Theory and Practice, indicating that Satanism is disguised as black magic, at least in Crowley’s brand of occult-flavored BS for Satanists. His initial book, The Book of the Law, which is disguised as a revelation from a spiritual being, provides hints of the true nature of Satanism/SRA, such as the following:

We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world…. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. [This is another aspect of Satanism: drunken orgies designed to cultivate abandonment to animal impulses, and an initial form of possession.]
[...]
King! Love one another with burning hearts; on the low men trample in the fierce lust of your pride, in the day of your wrath. Ye are against the people, O my chosen!
[...]
If Will stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought. If Power asks why, then is Power weakness. Also reason is a lie; for there is a factor infinite & unknown; & all their words are skew-wise. Enough of Because! Be he damned for a dog! [I.e., don't ask too many questions.]
[...]
Mercy let be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!
[...]
Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!
[...]
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. [end of excerpts] ["Do what thou wilt" = "abandon yourself to your lower impulses."]

In another case, Satanism is disguised as philosophy: that of Nietzsche. Much of Nietzsche’s writings was inspired by certain Angels allied with Satan, and some essentially written by them using Nietzsche as a stenographer. His general message is that everyone is contemptible, and that we should abandon ourselves to our impulses and make up our belief system to “justify” doing so. Nietzsche was the original “prophet” of the New Age, but this has been swept under the rug. Crowley was one of his fans. So, Nietzsche is a key figure in modern Satanism.

Another variety of occult-flavored BS is found in the works of H.P. Blavatsky, who acted as a channel for some corrupt anti-Christian, anti-Jehovah-ian occult groups residing in India at the time. Her works have been used as fodder for various New Age “shell groups.” They were never never meant to be understood – much like Satanist Albert Pike’s Freemasonic “theology,” but just to “baffle ‘em with BS.”

From Fred:
It is obvious to me that the IFBC is Satanism hiding behind a facade of sanctimony. The essence of Satanism is SRA, where the “ritual” is to be understood in the sense of being repetitive or routine. It takes many, many forms and can be anything from innocuous to horrific. Its purpose is to open the souls of its practitioners to demonic possession, if they pursue it with sufficient devotion, but it appears to me that they are told that it’s intended to give them occult powers, which explains Harry Potter as a means of recruiting suckers. Of course, motive is complex, and they might be doing it for other reasons, such as to get in good with “wizards” who can provide them with creature comforts.

Satanism itself (i.e. what the vast majority of Satanists believe) is “occult-flavored” BS – it is not occultism proper, by which I mean the Mysteries. The Mysteries are absolutely secret, or “occult,” to outsiders, except those portions which have been made available to the public as mankind has become more capable of receiving them. However, a great deal is still strictly hidden, i.e. “occult.” A lot of it is incomprehensible to most people anyways – based on the difficulty of understanding some of what has been released to the public. (See The Rudolf Steiner Archive as an example of actual Mystery teachings that have been made public.)

Black magic (which is not the same as Satanism despite what Satanists might like to believe) contains actual occult secrets, but obtained through improper channels and used for evil purposes. In order to obtain these secrets, it is necessary to do unspeakable things which imbue the perpetrator with the desire to use the subsequently-revealed secrets for evil purposes. This is not the same as possession, although I don’t know exactly what it is. Black magic is actually more evil than Satanism, and Satanism can be thought of as a sort of subsidiary of black magic.

Then there are the shell-organizations which Satanism creates as a facade, and as a means of abusing people. The members of these shell-organizations are well-meaning but bamboozled. This is what the IFBC is. Scientology, Wicca, and Freemasonry are more examples of this sort of shell-organization. Part of the abuse inflicted on the members of these “shells” takes the form of lying.

From Elizabeth:
Paul was called, but Paul isn’t Jesus. Paul is appalling in his boundaries. Jesus isn’t bound by space/time/misogynism.

From Vernon:
Woman, I find your attacks against IFB churches blatantly hypocritical and admonish you to repent yourself and follow the truth..i.e. John 7:17
In other words , the reason you are mislead is because you ,perhaps, found God’s will and didn’t agree with His discriminative viewpoints. Which , I believe, is where you are stumbling with. God does discriminate and He does so to , for one , cause jealousy..Opening the door to the gentiles created jealousy for the Jews for example.
Again , He discriminates against woman. Woman to keep silent in the churches for example.
He discriminates against races. Abraham told Eliezer not to take a wife for his son Isaac from the philistines..Esau did and we both know it caused grief to both his parents..Ishmael took a wife from a Hamite which things grieved his parents also…
So, seeing these things can’t be spoken against (or refuted) how about you repent and change your cause..Cause a foolish woman plucketh down her house..ok ?

From Thomas:
The problem is since the 50 s The IFB Churches have been turned over to Pastors that are not true IFB Pastors in there belief, thay are from the old Baptist faith and in other cases some from Churches of Christ and other types of churches. The true IFB Churches Believe in the truth of the bible not on tradition like other churches do. They hold to the the 1611 KJV as the only Bible. For what the KJV Bible says do not add or take away from this book haveing studied these other so called bibles and done the research on them verse by verse you see right off that they leve off a lot of inporent words and in some cases whole verses out which in the true translation of the KJV sayes not to do. Haveing been on a pulpit committee it became clear right of the bat. We had over 150 Pastors send in resumes for an IFB church saying they were IFB Pastors and only 20 were of them were of True IFB faith and some of the rest of them were not even close to metting the qualifications for a Pastor as laid out in any of the Bibles that are out there. The reason for this confusion is that churches in the 50’s took what Pastors that were there at the time insted of waitting for God to send them the right IFB Pastor for their church that in turn is what has led to the IFB churches to be so differnt and so meny of them being tought like other baptist churches and others types of churches. The fuundamental in IFB means that the IFB takes the KJV as it is written and dose not add ore take awy from it. They teach on the Bible and and what it says not tradition like other churches do, true IFB churches belive that members of others churches will and I mean will go to heaven to as long as they belive in Christ and ask him to forgive them for there sins and what he did on that Cross for all man kind this is where the IFB is differnt from other Churches. as other Churches teach that if you dont go to there type of Church you are going to hell. As for finding a true IFB Church near you, you have the KJV to go by, in it, it says be ware of false prophets for you shall know them by there works and their works will show. The other problem is that these orther churches use the new dictionary to translate the Bible and that is where they run into trouble if you are going to translate the Bible you need to use a book that has the meaning of the words at the time In 1611 when The Bible was written when you do this you see right off the differences that is being tought, that is why these others types of Pastors and Churches tell there members to use only the items and verces that they point out ore use other people that belive like them and when you ask about somthing that some other Pastor said they love to use the verse beware of false prophets but dont tell there members the rest of the verse so you will fallow them and what they teach Instead of the truth

Post from Ronald Tumuro on the “About This Site” page:
I have a very serious question for you and hopefully you can anser this. I know two people who were protestant until the day a preacher new to the town waltzed his way in by knocking on the front door and intoducing his church. He had been on the staff at a uncredited bible college that practices in the IFB Beleif. Since this time (3 Years) these people refuse to go to Disney world because it is ungodly, they claim the bible has predicted that our current president is taking the country to hell.

I say thank God for the IFB, because I dint understand the word of God until I read a King James Bible. I belonged to a Pentecostal NIV church for 3 years until I finally realized I was being deceived by a phony bible and then deceived by emotionalism and experience exalting the Holy Spirit. The History behind the modern versions and the people who put them out are NOT of God. We should live strict to the bible. its the WORD of God. Imagine Jesus Christ compromising his own word just so that he wouldn’t take so much criticism. Imagine Jesus Christ being called a legalist because he taught us not to live by bread alone but by EVERY Word of GOD. I think your website is bashing the IFB. These websites are designed for those who want to have a little worldly fun without all the guilt. I say your weak in the faith and need to pray harder are read harder and subject your flesh to the spirit and then maybe you wont have theses Satanic influences confusing you and bashing what’s right.

Post from Gerry on the “About This Site” page:
you are totally freak my friend….im not a member of IFB but im fundamentalist baptists….maybe you are sleeping while your pastor speak to sunday school or preached in a worship service…you fell abused or you have a crisis identity…or you felt neglected..there is no abuse in fundamental baptist nor brain washing in the church…everyone is entitled to have each own a holy BIBLE and read it.if you are not convinced to doctrine,you are free to go to another church.no one forced you stay in the church.you are one of tares among the wheats….where is the abused….wake up my friend maybe your still dreaming..

Email from George Tedder:
From reading about you it sounds like to me that your problem first is that your not saved or born again. Second, You were just a rebellious little female dog(b—-h) when you were being raised by some good God fearing parents. God doesn’t force himself on anyone. You had a choice and now you must live with it. May God have mercy on your evil soul.

hi my name is lizzy that was not an idependent fundemental baptist church we believe salvation through christ is the oly way to heaven and if you must judge then let me speak what you said hurts me but im not angry with you im angry that they did that instead of reading their bibles. we try our best to follow the bible and just because its noyt in neon red doesnt mean God doesnt want you o do it now holding hands is not a sin but it is a standard if you violate you just now opened the door to sin and well there is an extreme but i would rather be extreme then have a messed up life and sir next time you join a church that long please dont join just to critize

This is a funny website. It ranks up there with that website ‘Obama for President’ and ‘Door Knobs for the Homeless’. Do you live in your Mom’s basement? Now don’t get mad at me, I go to a non-denom church.

YOU MADE FUN OF ONE YOUNG MAN FOR HIS SPELLING…..LOOK AT YOU HEADER FOR YOUR HOMPAGE. READING THROUGH YOUR WEBSITE I SEE THAT YOU ARE BITTER AND HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BAD MOUTH OTEHR CHRISTIANS. YOU SAID YOURSELF THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING SAVED AND COULD BE SAVED IN IFB CHURCHES…AND IF YOU READ THE BIBLE….KJV OR ANY OTHER PERVERSIONS….I MEAN BIBLES…THAN YOU WILL KNOW THAT THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES WHEN PEOPLE SOW DISCORD AMONG BRETHERN (PROVERBS 6:16-20). I AM NOT GOING TO PRAY FOR YOU, BUT THE DESTRUCTION OF YOUR WEBSITE. NO, I AM NOT BAPTIST, BUT I HATE WHEN PEOPLE BAD MOUTH CHRISTIANS. WE’RE FIGHTING SATAN, NOT EACHOTHER. IF YOU WERE HURT I AM SORRY, BUT GROW UP AND DEDICATE YOUR TIME TO CHRIST, NOT SOWING DISCORD AMONG BRETHERN! YOU TOLD ONE COMMENT THAT YOU ARE HAPPY…AFTER READING YOUR PAGE…I CAN’T SEE THAT! AND ALSO ONE COMMENT SAID THAT THEY WERE SEEING SOULS SAVED IN THERE CHURCH, AND YOUR COMMENT BACK WAS SOMETHING LIKE ‘CHURCHS DON’T GET THE GLORY..GOD DOES’. HE DIDN’T EVEN SAY THAT. IT SOUNDED TO ME LIKE HE WAS SAYING THAT GOD WAS SAVING SOULS IN HIS CHURCH, BUT I KNOW IF YOU TOOK IT AS IT WAS MENT YOU WOULDN’T HAVE ANYTHING TO ARGUE WITH HIM ABOUT! LOOKS LIKE YOU COPY AND PASTE YOUR COMMENTS. THEY ARE SAY..YOUR A COWARD…DON’T JUDGE ME…I WAS HURT SO THAT JUSTIFIES SETTING UP A WEBPAGE WITH THE WHOLE FACT OF HURTING OTHER CHRISTIANS….SAME THING OVER AND OVER. I AM NOT A COWARD, BUT I DON’T WANT YOU FOLLOWING ME AROUND OR WAKE UP ONE NIGHT WITH YOU LEANING OVER MY BED (YOU SEEM LIKE THAT KIND OF PERSON) SO I AM NOT GOING TO LEAVE YOU MY NAME…AND THERE MIGHT BE SPELLING ERRORS ON THIS EMAIL, BUT AT LEAST I KNOW HOW TO SPELL BAPTIST! WHAT ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS WEBSITE, UPSET CHRISTIANS, GLORIFY SATAN, OR MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT? CONGRATULATIONS, YOU’VE DONE ALL THREE!!!

Maaaan, you know there is such thing in the web like search engine, http://google.com if you don’t, go there to understand why this post is bull@#$%