27 Comments

  1. greg

    I e-mailed both of these fine christian men (sarcasm) today and I suppose I will hear more IFB vitriol from both of them. If they think you are wrong, why don’t they in christian love reach out and “minister” and love you, and point out the error of your way. I’m just reminded once again how deceitful this IFB mindset is, someone believes differently than me so what must I do, share scripture with them, perhaps pray for/with them, examine further why they believe what they believe? None of those – I must attack, attack, attack, and find other like-minded cronies to join in the attack.

    Anyway Pastor Williams site is pretty funny (His is the only church in the whole Tampa area with the truth) don’t know how far you have to get away from Tampa before you can find someone else that has the truth.

    Reply
  2. greg

    Steve – Arv and I had a couple of nice e-mail exchanges, we obviously had differences, but we were both playing nice, then he told me that if I knew the translation topic as good as he did that I would know thus and such, well that didn’t go over real well, so I started to get real pointed and knock down some of his all-star kjvonly’s, at that point it became a bit too warm for Arv in the kitchen, so instead of being a christian adult, his last e-mail he merely Romans 1:22’d me (juvenile) so I turned around and Galatian 2:11’d him (equally juvenile) thus ended our short discussion.

    It’s hard to hold onto this foolish KJVonlyism in the face of someone that knows anything at all about the translation issue, you know we really do have the internet to thank for allowing folks the ability to search out these issues, I mean even down to the actual manuscript evidence itself.

    I haven’t heard anything back from the so-called preacher Williams, I’m sure that he’s not abit brighter than ol Arv.

    May God be true and every man a liar.

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  3. greg

    Steve – Arv came back for another round, I must admit I was surprised. He is probably lurking here now and may have seen the above “update” at any rate we can only pray that the Holy Spirit will begin to shine some light on his misguided KJV zealotry.

    Just a thought, but wonder what they would talk/preach about if you took away tithing and KJVonlyism.

    Reply

    • Hey Greg,

      Do you also enjoy beating your head against a wall? Because talking with Arv feels very similar 🙂

      He did the same thing with me. He threatened to stop communicating and then would email me again. So I have a feeling that you haven’t heard the last from him. Then when I finally cut him off he got his buddies to email me.

      I just don’t understand how these people can’t see their hypocrisy. They are truly blind and it would be laughable if it weren’t so sad.

      Steve

      Reply
    • Kevin

      You know s/thing, it’s a shame that you lump any and all independent Baptist churches into one pot. Geesh, it’s no different than calling all politicians liars because you’ve heard some lie, or calling all people of color wicked because you came across one who was stumbling from having ingested too much wine, etc, etc….

      I could go on and on with similarities, but the vitriol seems to FLOOOOOOOOOOOOW from some of you. It’s as if you have an axe to grind…like you’ve got a chip on your shoulder.

      Whatever it is, make another attempt to “get over it”, ok?

      Reply
  4. Katie

    OMG!!! That’s all that comes to mind right now… O…. M…. G….

    It doesn’t feel like that’s even a Christian talking. As I read it, it feels like someone who is just trying to make a sale with nothing more than dirty sales tactics. The “Manual of Sales Tactics” teaches that the sales rep “use bribery, coercion, intimidation and lies to get customers to the presentations…” where they can fill the customer with more lies, coercion, intimidation and manipulation.

    The only difference is that someone with dirty sales tactics training knows that they are using dirty sales tactics. With Arv, he seems truly delusional, really believing what he is trying to communicate. How pathetic!!!

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  5. EDDIE

    I’ll let that email speak for itself.

    I think it’s quite ironic that Arv is an “Evangelist”. I guess to be an evangelist in the IFB you have to evangelize by attacking and verbally abusing people. It is my hope that by posting this, readers will be able to see how dangerous this cult-like denomination really is. I think it’s inexcusable for an evangelist to act this way.

    This is how the IFB spreads its message folks, by intimidation and manipulation. How sad it is that people are deceived into believing such lies.

    OK, enough venting. Thanks again for reading.

    WOW – WHAT A CHARACTER. YOU ATTACK ALL IFB’S FOLKS BUT WHEN YOUR ATTACKS ARE CHALLENGED, YOU TAKE OFFENSE AND MAKE IT SOUND AS IF YOU ARE A VICTIM?

    YOU ISSUED THE ATTACKS, MOCK THE PREACHERS AND CHURCHES AND NOW WHEN REFUTED YOU RUN AND SHED TEARS OF BEING A VICTIM. GROW UP! SURELY YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOURSELF? YOU SPEAK WITH VENOM AND WHEN IT IS DISHED BACK YOU TRY TO MAKE IT SOUND AS IF YOU “FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT OF FAITH”.

    YOU ARE TRULY SOMETHING TO BEHOLD.

    WHAT A LAUGH!

    I DOUBT THAT ANY OF THIS WILL BE PUBLISHED, BUT WHY NOT?

    Reply

    • And the attacks continue with YOUR post. So why don’t you do something different then and try to argue with logic and reason rather than continue the attack exchange?

      If I’m such a “character” and so immature, as you claim, then why don’t you help me and point out my errors rather than just continue the attack exchange?

      Reply
  6. Jordan P

    @EDDIE
    WHY ARE YOU YELLING?

    Reply
  7. John Doe

    @Steve
    Steve your a funny guy

    Reply
  8. Thomas Wheeler

    Steve, I find as you know I still don’t agree with you on this KJV issue. That you are a very good representitive of those of us that have been abused by this very type of person. I feel the compassion that you evidenced in this exchange exemplifies the spirit of my preception of a Christ like spirit! I am proud to have found this site. I appriecate the work you have done here and hope God enables you to continue. I would appriecate your opinion of a page I am working on to point people to a relationship with Jesus rather then solely a Church relationship. It is http://www.facebook.com/page/Church-Survivors/351959144822796

    Reply
  9. Thomas Wheeler

    In your exchange with Arv, you mention that tge Local Church in not taught in the Bible. Can you explain this for me. I may have miss it, but I would understand it if you didn’t it was very hard to keep up with all the issues he keep bring up.

    Thank you

    Reply

    • I’m not sure how to say it more clearly. We don’t find support for the idea of a “local church” (at least not the way it’s taught in the IFB) in scripture. If you know of scripture that teaches this then please feel free to share it.

      Reply
    • Kevin

      Interesting, as when you see the word “CHURCH” used througout the New Testament, it almost ALWAYS refers to a local assembly of believers. lol

      (This is a single comment after wading through some of the…ugh, lengthy “garbage” written about above. I may offer up another comment or two as i scroll through some more of the comments. 🙂

      Reply
  10. Thomas Wheeler

    Also, I’m also curious about your statement that the KJV today is influenced by Westcott & Hort. Are you refering to the NKJV? If so, that is where you lost Arv! Because, they nor I except the NKJV as a exceptable version. It’s my understanding that althought there was 4 different printings. That the 1611 version there was just correction for typos 2 times.

    The NKJV would be viewed by the socalled socalors of today as the 5th revision. Not to rehash the issue just looking for a clearification on this point!

    I have simply, in my heart, agree to disagree on the issue! So, please don’t think I am baiting you!

    Reply

    • No I’m not referring to the NKJV. Some scholars report a revised edition of the KJV in the 1850s that was influenced by the work of Wescott and Hort.

      Reply
  11. Thomas Wheeler

    Not trying to be a oest here but what about the idea of the different books being written to the different churches. Corinth, galathia, etc.@Steve

    Reply

    • You’re not being a pest. I welcome the discussion.

      I don’t see the connection. How does Corinth, Galacia, etc support the modern day idea of a local church?

      Reply
  12. Thomas Wheeler

    Just that they are refered to as the church at etc! I truely am not baiting you here. Please share with me or point me to where you talk about the local church as it is practiced today. I to believe that the Church today is not right. But, it is just something I have been force into as I am having a hard time fitting in anywhere! I find a personal walk with God a much more rewarding adventure!

    Reply

    • I haven’t really talked about it on the site yet except for in a few comments. It’s on my to do list of topics for the site though.

      Basically I think that this idea of a local church arose out of the teaching of Hebrews 10:25 and has been taken out of context and twisted like so many other passages of scripture. An autonomous local meeting place for believers with an organizational structure, a congregation, a board of directors, an executive committee, rights to vote, membership, etc. It’s all man made. We don’t find support for it in the Bible.

      When Paul was writing to the various “churches” he was writing to the body of believers in that location not to the Corinthian Baptist Church on the corner of 3rd and Main St. Corinth, for example, was a rather large city with a population of over 400,000 people. Paul was writing to the believers in that city not to a particular church like we think of it today.

      Now I realize that a local meeting place is necessary simply for logistical reasons, but to promote it as scriptural is a lie at best and manipulation at worst. The IFBs I grew up in taught that the “Local Church” (i.e., the local IFB church that one committed to as a member in a particular location) was taught in scriptures and a necessary part of our spiritual values as Christians. Hebrews 10:25 simply tells us to not ignore the need to meet together. That’s it, nothing more. How we’ve gotten so tied up in the way we do church in today’s society is mind boggling madness.

      By the way, another level to all this madness about a “local church” is the different denominations available. Where I used to live there were 5 churches within walking distance from my house. There’s no teaching in scripture for that, none that I’m aware of at least.

      Reply
  13. Thomas Wheeler

    Thank you, this is reasoning I had come to as well but I just was looking for any other info you might have on the issue. I think it would be a very good topic for your site.

    I would really like you thoughts on my page if you get a chance to check it out. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Church-Survivors/351959144822796

    Thanks

    Reply

    • Your facebook page looks good but please be careful of copyright violations. What you’re writing is very similar to what we write here on this site. Please give credit to your sources.

      Reply
  14. Thomas Wheeler

    Ok thank you steve God bless!

    Reply
  15. Alisha

    Not sure what your point is posting these exchanges with “Arv.” While you probably mean well, and I’ve found most of your site informative so far, this post comes off as you wanting to get into a doctrinal pissing match with a IFB pastor/evangelist/whatever-as long as they’re IFB you are going on the attack. This makes me question your motives.

    Reply

    • Hi Alisha,

      Read the introduction to the post at the beginning. It is there that I explain what happened and why I posted the exchange.

      Thanks for your kind words and support.

      Reply

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